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aspx thread: .Net and mainframe
Message #1 by "Mel C Solomon" <melsolomon@e...> on Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:58:25 -0800
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|
...Hi! Out of my stupid curiousity, I just want to know if .Net has
implementation on mainframe systems or anything that might relate to them.
I believe java has good support to mainframe, how about .Net?
Please share your ideas,
Mel :)
ASP+ wrote:
>There is a slight difference in the re-compile that happens after IIS
>has
>been restarted.
>
>When a page is requested for the first time, ASP.NET actually writes a
>C#
>class for the page. This class will either inherit directly from
>System.Web.UI.Page (Beta 2) or if you are using code behind it will
>inherit
>directly from your code behind class. After the class is written, it is
>compiled using the command line compiler csc. Obviously, the result is
>a
>.NET assembly which contains MSIL code. This assembly is then JITted to
>x86
>code and cached. Subsequent requests to the page simply refer to the
>cached
>x86 code.
>
>If IIS is restarted, the only compilation that re-occurs for the page is
>the
>JIT to x86 code. The class that ASP.NET writes for the page is not
>re-written unless the code changes. So this step and the compilation to
>a
>.NET assembly are skipped.
>
>Hope that further clarifies it for you.
>
>Scott Davis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Juan T. Llibre [mailto:j.llibre@c...]
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:17 AM
>To: ASP+
>Subject: [aspx] Re: When are ASPX files Recompiled
>
>
>They are compiled when CALLED for the first time by any browser.
>
>They are recompiled when called by any browser,
>after changes have been made to their source code.
>
>The reason your files are recompiled when they are
>called after you reboot is, of course, that IIS has been
>stopped and restarted by the reboot, so in effect it's as
>if they are being called for the first time.
>
>( The IIS application has been stopped and restarted... )
>
>regards,
>
>
>Juan T. Llibre
>Microsoft MVP [IIS/ASP]
>ASP.Net En Espa=F1ol : http://207.176.17.140/
>http://p2p.wrox.com/subscribe.asp?list=3Daspx_espanol
>http://www.asplists.com/asplists/aspnges.asp
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <kamathamit@p...>
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:25 AM
>Subject: [aspx] When are ASPX files Recompiled
>
>
>> From what i have read & seen ASPX files get compiled when they are
>> created for the First time or when ever changes are made. It seems to
>me
>> that the Files are also recompiled when I Reboot my system!!
>>
>> Can some one Clarify this?
>> Amit
>
Message #2 by Jerry Diegel <jerry.diegel@h...> on Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:22:52 -0500
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|
The only thing I can think of along these lines is M$ SNA Server 4.0. It
has a few OLE DB providers for VSAM and DB2 on AS/400's. As well as a few
other implementations. I have been hearing some stuff about running COBOL
through the CLR though. The last version of mainframe Jave I worked with
was the version right before Swing came out, and you could do some neat
stuff with it, but it wasn't anything any C programmer couldn't do.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel C Solomon [mailto:melsolomon@e...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 4:58 PM
To: ASP+
Subject: [aspx] .Net and mainframe
...Hi! Out of my stupid curiousity, I just want to know if .Net has
implementation on mainframe systems or anything that might relate to them.
I believe java has good support to mainframe, how about .Net?
Please share your ideas,
Mel :)
ASP+ wrote:
>There is a slight difference in the re-compile that happens after IIS
>has
>been restarted.
>
>When a page is requested for the first time, ASP.NET actually writes a
>C#
>class for the page. This class will either inherit directly from
>System.Web.UI.Page (Beta 2) or if you are using code behind it will
>inherit
>directly from your code behind class. After the class is written, it is
>compiled using the command line compiler csc. Obviously, the result is
>a
>.NET assembly which contains MSIL code. This assembly is then JITted to
>x86
>code and cached. Subsequent requests to the page simply refer to the
>cached
>x86 code.
>
>If IIS is restarted, the only compilation that re-occurs for the page is
>the
>JIT to x86 code. The class that ASP.NET writes for the page is not
>re-written unless the code changes. So this step and the compilation to
>a
>.NET assembly are skipped.
>
>Hope that further clarifies it for you.
>
>Scott Davis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Juan T. Llibre [mailto:j.llibre@c...]
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:17 AM
>To: ASP+
>Subject: [aspx] Re: When are ASPX files Recompiled
>
>
>They are compiled when CALLED for the first time by any browser.
>
>They are recompiled when called by any browser,
>after changes have been made to their source code.
>
>The reason your files are recompiled when they are
>called after you reboot is, of course, that IIS has been
>stopped and restarted by the reboot, so in effect it's as
>if they are being called for the first time.
>
>( The IIS application has been stopped and restarted... )
>
>regards,
>
>
>Juan T. Llibre
>Microsoft MVP [IIS/ASP]
>ASP.Net En Espa=F1ol : http://207.176.17.140/
>http://p2p.wrox.com/subscribe.asp?list=3Daspx_espanol
>http://www.asplists.com/asplists/aspnges.asp
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <kamathamit@p...>
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:25 AM
>Subject: [aspx] When are ASPX files Recompiled
>
>
>> From what i have read & seen ASPX files get compiled when they are
>> created for the First time or when ever changes are made. It seems to
>me
>> that the Files are also recompiled when I Reboot my system!!
>>
>> Can some one Clarify this?
>> Amit
>
Message #3 by "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...> on Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:15:04 -0700
|
|
As I see it the CLR has only been developed for windows and Linux at this
time - that does not mean you can develop in Linux that means your .net apps
will run on Linux. The CLR is the same concept as the Java's virtual machine
it's OS specific. Whether a third partly develops a CLR for whatever
Mainframe you are talking about only time will tell. I am sure a CLR is on
it's way for the Mac OS and various other platforms.
-Dexter-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mel C Solomon" <melsolomon@e...>
To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 2:58 PM
Subject: [aspx] .Net and mainframe
> ...Hi! Out of my stupid curiousity, I just want to know if .Net has
> implementation on mainframe systems or anything that might relate to them.
> I believe java has good support to mainframe, how about .Net?
>
> Please share your ideas,
>
> Mel :)
>
> ASP+ wrote:
>
> >There is a slight difference in the re-compile that happens after IIS
> >has
> >been restarted.
> >
> >When a page is requested for the first time, ASP.NET actually writes a
> >C#
> >class for the page. This class will either inherit directly from
> >System.Web.UI.Page (Beta 2) or if you are using code behind it will
> >inherit
> >directly from your code behind class. After the class is written, it is
> >compiled using the command line compiler csc. Obviously, the result is
> >a
> >.NET assembly which contains MSIL code. This assembly is then JITted to
> >x86
> >code and cached. Subsequent requests to the page simply refer to the
> >cached
> >x86 code.
> >
> >If IIS is restarted, the only compilation that re-occurs for the page is
> >the
> >JIT to x86 code. The class that ASP.NET writes for the page is not
> >re-written unless the code changes. So this step and the compilation to
> >a
> >.NET assembly are skipped.
> >
> >Hope that further clarifies it for you.
> >
> >Scott Davis
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Juan T. Llibre [mailto:j.llibre@c...]
> >Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:17 AM
> >To: ASP+
> >Subject: [aspx] Re: When are ASPX files Recompiled
> >
> >
> >They are compiled when CALLED for the first time by any browser.
> >
> >They are recompiled when called by any browser,
> >after changes have been made to their source code.
> >
> >The reason your files are recompiled when they are
> >called after you reboot is, of course, that IIS has been
> >stopped and restarted by the reboot, so in effect it's as
> >if they are being called for the first time.
> >
> >( The IIS application has been stopped and restarted... )
> >
> >regards,
> >
> >
> >Juan T. Llibre
> >Microsoft MVP [IIS/ASP]
> >ASP.Net En Espa=F1ol : http://207.176.17.140/
> >http://p2p.wrox.com/subscribe.asp?list=3Daspx_espanol
> >http://www.asplists.com/asplists/aspnges.asp
>
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <kamathamit@p...>
> >Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:25 AM
> >Subject: [aspx] When are ASPX files Recompiled
> >
> >
> >> From what i have read & seen ASPX files get compiled when they are
> >> created for the First time or when ever changes are made. It seems to
> >me
> >> that the Files are also recompiled when I Reboot my system!!
> >>
> >> Can some one Clarify this?
> >> Amit
> >
>
Message #4 by "SATHISH C.G." <cgs@s...> on Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:05:52 +0530
|
|
Hi all,
If c# is os specific, then how can we compare it to java. The
main advantage of java is platform independency. Please post ur comments for
this query.
Regards
SATHISH C.G.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>
To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:45 AM
Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> As I see it the CLR has only been developed for windows and Linux at this
> time - that does not mean you can develop in Linux that means your .net
apps
> will run on Linux. The CLR is the same concept as the Java's virtual
machine
> it's OS specific. Whether a third partly develops a CLR for whatever
> Mainframe you are talking about only time will tell. I am sure a CLR is on
> it's way for the Mac OS and various other platforms.
> -Dexter-
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mel C Solomon" <melsolomon@e...>
> To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 2:58 PM
> Subject: [aspx] .Net and mainframe
>
>
> > ...Hi! Out of my stupid curiousity, I just want to know if .Net has
> > implementation on mainframe systems or anything that might relate to
them.
> > I believe java has good support to mainframe, how about .Net?
> >
> > Please share your ideas,
> >
> > Mel :)
> >
> > ASP+ wrote:
> >
> > >There is a slight difference in the re-compile that happens after IIS
> > >has
> > >been restarted.
> > >
> > >When a page is requested for the first time, ASP.NET actually writes a
> > >C#
> > >class for the page. This class will either inherit directly from
> > >System.Web.UI.Page (Beta 2) or if you are using code behind it will
> > >inherit
> > >directly from your code behind class. After the class is written, it
is
> > >compiled using the command line compiler csc. Obviously, the result is
> > >a
> > >.NET assembly which contains MSIL code. This assembly is then JITted
to
>
> > >x86
> > >code and cached. Subsequent requests to the page simply refer to the
> > >cached
> > >x86 code.
> > >
> > >If IIS is restarted, the only compilation that re-occurs for the page
is
>
> > >the
> > >JIT to x86 code. The class that ASP.NET writes for the page is not
> > >re-written unless the code changes. So this step and the compilation
to
>
> > >a
> > >.NET assembly are skipped.
> > >
> > >Hope that further clarifies it for you.
> > >
> > >Scott Davis
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Juan T. Llibre [mailto:j.llibre@c...]
> > >Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:17 AM
> > >To: ASP+
> > >Subject: [aspx] Re: When are ASPX files Recompiled
> > >
> > >
> > >They are compiled when CALLED for the first time by any browser.
> > >
> > >They are recompiled when called by any browser,
> > >after changes have been made to their source code.
> > >
> > >The reason your files are recompiled when they are
> > >called after you reboot is, of course, that IIS has been
> > >stopped and restarted by the reboot, so in effect it's as
> > >if they are being called for the first time.
> > >
> > >( The IIS application has been stopped and restarted... )
> > >
> > >regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >Juan T. Llibre
> > >Microsoft MVP [IIS/ASP]
> > >ASP.Net En Espa=F1ol : http://207.176.17.140/
> > >http://p2p.wrox.com/subscribe.asp?list=3Daspx_espanol
> > >http://www.asplists.com/asplists/aspnges.asp
> >
> >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: <kamathamit@p...>
> > >Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:25 AM
> > >Subject: [aspx] When are ASPX files Recompiled
> > >
> > >
> > >> From what i have read & seen ASPX files get compiled when they are
> > >> created for the First time or when ever changes are made. It seems to
> > >me
> > >> that the Files are also recompiled when I Reboot my system!!
> > >>
> > >> Can some one Clarify this?
> > >> Amit
> > >
>
Message #5 by "Juan T. Llibre" <j.llibre@c...> on Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:14:13 -0500
|
|
Satish,
C# is not OS-specific.
It's .NET platform-specific, which is something entirely different.
Just because a MAC CLR ( Common Language Runtime ) or a C#
compiler for the MAC platform have not been written yet, for example,
doesn't mean that incompatibility exists between MAC and .NET.
That just hasn't been done...yet.
As soon as that work is completed,
you'll be able to use C# under the MAC platform.
The .NET platform defines a "Common Language Subset" (CLS),
a kind of lingua franca that permits seamless interoperability
between CLS-compliant languages and .NET class libraries (the CLR).
So, C# is CLS-compliant, but not OS-specific.
When a CLR and a C# compiler are written for a particular platform,
like Linux for example, then C# can be immediately used under that
platform.
I believe work is well under way on a CLR for Linux,
and I'm sure other platforms will get CLRs written for them.
All that is needed is for OS-specific libraries be written
...which comply to the .NET platform's specifications.
As soon as that work is completed, C# will run under Linux.
To illustrate this point about a language not being OS-specific,
let's use Perl and Python as examples.
Perl and Python are not OS-specific, just like C# is not OS-specific.
Perl and Python run under Linux, Windows, Unix, etc.
BUT they have different libraries associated with each of those platforms
...and both Perl and Python are getting .NET-compliant libraries written for them.
See http://www.activestate.com/ASPN/NET/
for info on .NET-compliant Python and Perl libraries and compilers.
When you write with a programming language, you can create OS-specific
libraries with it and you can "attack" OS-specific libraries with it.
Clearly, you must use OS-specific libraries in order to be able
to write programs which run under a particular OS.
But that doesn't mean the language itself is OS-specific.
regards,
Juan T. Llibre
ASP.Net En Espaņol : http://207.176.17.140/
=================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "SATHISH C.G." <cgs@s...>
To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> Hi all,
>
> If c# is os specific, then how can we compare it to java. The
> main advantage of java is platform independency. Please post
> ur comments for this query.
>
> Regards
> SATHISH C.G.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>
> To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:45 AM
> Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
>
>
> As I see it the CLR has only been developed for windows and Linux at this
> time - that does not mean you can develop in Linux that means your .net
> apps will run on Linux. The CLR is the same concept as the Java's virtual
> machine it's OS specific. Whether a third partly develops a CLR for whatever
> Mainframe you are talking about only time will tell. I am sure a CLR is on
> it's way for the Mac OS and various other platforms.
> -Dexter-
Message #6 by "SATHISH C.G." <cgs@s...> on Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:04:11 +0530
|
|
Hi Juan T. Llibre,
Thanks for your reply.
Regards
SATHISH C.G.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan T. Llibre" <j.llibre@c...>
To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:44 PM
Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> Satish,
>
> C# is not OS-specific.
>
> It's .NET platform-specific, which is something entirely different.
>
> Just because a MAC CLR ( Common Language Runtime ) or a C#
> compiler for the MAC platform have not been written yet, for example,
> doesn't mean that incompatibility exists between MAC and .NET.
>
> That just hasn't been done...yet.
>
> As soon as that work is completed,
> you'll be able to use C# under the MAC platform.
>
> The .NET platform defines a "Common Language Subset" (CLS),
> a kind of lingua franca that permits seamless interoperability
> between CLS-compliant languages and .NET class libraries (the CLR).
>
> So, C# is CLS-compliant, but not OS-specific.
>
> When a CLR and a C# compiler are written for a particular platform,
> like Linux for example, then C# can be immediately used under that
> platform.
>
> I believe work is well under way on a CLR for Linux,
> and I'm sure other platforms will get CLRs written for them.
>
> All that is needed is for OS-specific libraries be written
> ...which comply to the .NET platform's specifications.
>
> As soon as that work is completed, C# will run under Linux.
>
> To illustrate this point about a language not being OS-specific,
> let's use Perl and Python as examples.
>
> Perl and Python are not OS-specific, just like C# is not OS-specific.
>
> Perl and Python run under Linux, Windows, Unix, etc.
>
> BUT they have different libraries associated with each of those platforms
> ...and both Perl and Python are getting .NET-compliant libraries written
for them.
>
> See http://www.activestate.com/ASPN/NET/
> for info on .NET-compliant Python and Perl libraries and compilers.
>
> When you write with a programming language, you can create OS-specific
> libraries with it and you can "attack" OS-specific libraries with it.
>
> Clearly, you must use OS-specific libraries in order to be able
> to write programs which run under a particular OS.
>
> But that doesn't mean the language itself is OS-specific.
>
> regards,
>
>
> Juan T. Llibre
> ASP.Net En Espaņol : http://207.176.17.140/
> =================================
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SATHISH C.G." <cgs@s...>
> To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:35 PM
> Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > If c# is os specific, then how can we compare it to java. The
> > main advantage of java is platform independency. Please post
> > ur comments for this query.
> >
> > Regards
> > SATHISH C.G.
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>
> > To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:45 AM
> > Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> >
> >
> > As I see it the CLR has only been developed for windows and Linux at
this
> > time - that does not mean you can develop in Linux that means your .net
> > apps will run on Linux. The CLR is the same concept as the Java's
virtual
> > machine it's OS specific. Whether a third partly develops a CLR for
whatever
> > Mainframe you are talking about only time will tell. I am sure a CLR is
on
> > it's way for the Mac OS and various other platforms.
> > -Dexter-
>
Message #7 by "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...> on Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:23:49 -0700
|
|
Ok let's Clarify things here: - writing a compiler for Mac and writing a CLR
are obviously quite different. If a application is written in dotNet it will
run anywhere a CLR is written for that platform. The CLS "Common Language
Specifications" if what all dotNet languages must conform, so as to compile
to MISL. Once compiled to MISL then they can run on any platform which has a
CLR written for that platform. If a third party writes a CLR for a mainframe
it doesn't mean they will write a compiler and I am dead sure they won't
write a VS7 IDE (which is "windows" dependant) to run on a mainframe.
Microsoft idea here is to use their OS (windows) to write your apps so they
can run on whatever platform that a CLR has been written for. Also you
better believe Microsoft wants to keep their developers using windows so I
don't see a huge market for compilers - it doesn't make sense when you have
a awesome IDE like VS7 to use for development.
- Dexter -
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan T. Llibre" <j.llibre@c...>
To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:14 AM
Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> Satish,
>
> C# is not OS-specific.
>
> It's .NET platform-specific, which is something entirely different.
>
> Just because a MAC CLR ( Common Language Runtime ) or a C#
> compiler for the MAC platform have not been written yet, for example,
> doesn't mean that incompatibility exists between MAC and .NET.
>
> That just hasn't been done...yet.
>
> As soon as that work is completed,
> you'll be able to use C# under the MAC platform.
>
> The .NET platform defines a "Common Language Subset" (CLS),
> a kind of lingua franca that permits seamless interoperability
> between CLS-compliant languages and .NET class libraries (the CLR).
>
> So, C# is CLS-compliant, but not OS-specific.
>
> When a CLR and a C# compiler are written for a particular platform,
> like Linux for example, then C# can be immediately used under that
> platform.
>
> I believe work is well under way on a CLR for Linux,
> and I'm sure other platforms will get CLRs written for them.
>
> All that is needed is for OS-specific libraries be written
> ...which comply to the .NET platform's specifications.
>
> As soon as that work is completed, C# will run under Linux.
>
> To illustrate this point about a language not being OS-specific,
> let's use Perl and Python as examples.
>
> Perl and Python are not OS-specific, just like C# is not OS-specific.
>
> Perl and Python run under Linux, Windows, Unix, etc.
>
> BUT they have different libraries associated with each of those platforms
> ...and both Perl and Python are getting .NET-compliant libraries written
for them.
>
> See http://www.activestate.com/ASPN/NET/
> for info on .NET-compliant Python and Perl libraries and compilers.
>
> When you write with a programming language, you can create OS-specific
> libraries with it and you can "attack" OS-specific libraries with it.
>
> Clearly, you must use OS-specific libraries in order to be able
> to write programs which run under a particular OS.
>
> But that doesn't mean the language itself is OS-specific.
>
> regards,
>
>
> Juan T. Llibre
> ASP.Net En Espaņol : http://207.176.17.140/
> =================================
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SATHISH C.G." <cgs@s...>
> To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:35 PM
> Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > If c# is os specific, then how can we compare it to java. The
> > main advantage of java is platform independency. Please post
> > ur comments for this query.
> >
> > Regards
> > SATHISH C.G.
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>
> > To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:45 AM
> > Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> >
> >
> > As I see it the CLR has only been developed for windows and Linux at
this
> > time - that does not mean you can develop in Linux that means your .net
> > apps will run on Linux. The CLR is the same concept as the Java's
virtual
> > machine it's OS specific. Whether a third partly develops a CLR for
whatever
> > Mainframe you are talking about only time will tell. I am sure a CLR is
on
> > it's way for the Mac OS and various other platforms.
> > -Dexter-
>
>
Message #8 by "Juan T. Llibre" <j.llibre@c...> on Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:18:43 -0500
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Hey, Peter, it was fairly clear to me...;>)
You've basically restated what I wrote, but I have a few contentions :
re :
> Ok let's Clarify things here: - writing a compiler for Mac
> and writing a CLR are obviously quite different.
I would think so...
re :
> If a third party writes a CLR for a mainframe
> it doesn't mean they will write a compiler
How would they compile the CLR for their platform ?
A CLR is a compiled runtime library
which works hand-in-hand with JIT compilers.
And...if a CLR is "compiled", I'd think that
at least one compiler would be needed to compile it.
Don't you ?
re :
> Once compiled to MISL
You do mean MSIL, don't you ?
( I thought it was a typo, but saw that you typoed it twice...)
re :
> I am dead sure they won't write a VS7 IDE
>(which is "windows" dependant) to run on a mainframe.
I'd love to see the VS7 IDE running on a mainframe...;>)
I think that hell would freeze over before that happens, though.
Couldn't the third party just use VI ( Notepad equivalent ) and a compiler ?
Source files are ascii. All you need is a compiler.
Grant you, it wouldn't be a RAD environment...but it's certainly doable.
re :
> I don't see a huge market for compilers
Just because you don't "see" the market, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
re :
> - it doesn't make sense when you have a awesome IDE like VS7
> to use for development.
If you're running Windows, that's true.
I don't think that Microsoft will port VS7 to other platforms.
[ It'd be a helluva job...;>) ]
But I'd imagine that an IDE for Linux .NET
development is not such a far-fetched idea.
It wouldn't be VS7...but it would be a development time-saving IDE.
We're into very speculative territory.
Maybe we should go back to discussing
code for what we have at hand...;>)
regards,
Juan T. Llibre
Microsoft MVP [IIS/ASP]
ASP.Net En Espaņol : http://207.176.17.140/
=================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>
To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:23 PM
Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> Ok let's Clarify things here: - writing a compiler for Mac and writing a CLR
> are obviously quite different. If a application is written in dotNet it will
> run anywhere a CLR is written for that platform. The CLS "Common Language
> Specifications" if what all dotNet languages must conform, so as to compile
> to MISL. Once compiled to MISL then they can run on any platform which has a
> CLR written for that platform. If a third party writes a CLR for a mainframe
> it doesn't mean they will write a compiler and I am dead sure they won't
> write a VS7 IDE (which is "windows" dependant) to run on a mainframe.
> Microsoft idea here is to use their OS (windows) to write your apps so they
> can run on whatever platform that a CLR has been written for. Also you
> better believe Microsoft wants to keep their developers using windows so I
> don't see a huge market for compilers - it doesn't make sense when you have
> a awesome IDE like VS7 to use for development.
> - Dexter -
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Juan T. Llibre" <j.llibre@c...>
> To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:14 AM
> Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
>
>
> > Satish,
> >
> > C# is not OS-specific.
> >
> > It's .NET platform-specific, which is something entirely different.
> >
> > Just because a MAC CLR ( Common Language Runtime ) or a C#
> > compiler for the MAC platform have not been written yet, for example,
> > doesn't mean that incompatibility exists between MAC and .NET.
> >
> > That just hasn't been done...yet.
> >
> > As soon as that work is completed,
> > you'll be able to use C# under the MAC platform.
> >
> > The .NET platform defines a "Common Language Subset" (CLS),
> > a kind of lingua franca that permits seamless interoperability
> > between CLS-compliant languages and .NET class libraries (the CLR).
> >
> > So, C# is CLS-compliant, but not OS-specific.
> >
> > When a CLR and a C# compiler are written for a particular platform,
> > like Linux for example, then C# can be immediately used under that
> > platform.
> >
> > I believe work is well under way on a CLR for Linux,
> > and I'm sure other platforms will get CLRs written for them.
> >
> > All that is needed is for OS-specific libraries be written
> > ...which comply to the .NET platform's specifications.
> >
> > As soon as that work is completed, C# will run under Linux.
> >
> > To illustrate this point about a language not being OS-specific,
> > let's use Perl and Python as examples.
> >
> > Perl and Python are not OS-specific, just like C# is not OS-specific.
> >
> > Perl and Python run under Linux, Windows, Unix, etc.
> >
> > BUT they have different libraries associated with each of those platforms
> > ...and both Perl and Python are getting .NET-compliant libraries written
> for them.
> >
> > See http://www.activestate.com/ASPN/NET/
> > for info on .NET-compliant Python and Perl libraries and compilers.
> >
> > When you write with a programming language, you can create OS-specific
> > libraries with it and you can "attack" OS-specific libraries with it.
> >
> > Clearly, you must use OS-specific libraries in order to be able
> > to write programs which run under a particular OS.
> >
> > But that doesn't mean the language itself is OS-specific.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> >
> > Juan T. Llibre
> > ASP.Net En Espaņol : http://207.176.17.140/
> > =================================
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "SATHISH C.G." <cgs@s...>
> > To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:35 PM
> > Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > If c# is os specific, then how can we compare it to java. The
> > > main advantage of java is platform independency. Please post
> > > ur comments for this query.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > SATHISH C.G.
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>
> > > To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:45 AM
> > > Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> > >
> > >
> > > As I see it the CLR has only been developed for windows and Linux at
> this
> > > time - that does not mean you can develop in Linux that means your .net
> > > apps will run on Linux. The CLR is the same concept as the Java's
> virtual
> > > machine it's OS specific. Whether a third partly develops a CLR for
> whatever
> > > Mainframe you are talking about only time will tell. I am sure a CLR is
> on
> > > it's way for the Mac OS and various other platforms.
> > > -Dexter-
> >
> >
> ---
> SoftArtisans helps developers build robust, scalable Web applications!
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>
Message #9 by "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...> on Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:56:18 -0700
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Ok your right about the point about compilation, and I neglected to clarify
that point. Applications written in dotNet are compiled twice. The first
time when you write your application and compile it to MSIL - Microsoft
Intermediate Language which must conform to the CLS (Common Language
Specification). Next it is compiled agian with a specified JIT complier -
there are three different JIT compliers at this time and they are platform
specific. The CLR contains a - Base Class Library - Class Loader - JIT
Compiler - Verifier -, which produces managed native code to run on that
specified platform. The point I was trying to make is I don't think there
will be much of a market for compilers to compile dotNet languages to
ISL - the first compilation. Microsoft is not dumb - they want to keep
their developer community using VS7 and windows 2000 for application
development. Microsoft wants to keep development platform and OS specific -
this is where they make their bread and butter. Rightfully so, it costs a
ton of money to pay engineers to write windows and VS7, both are huge and
complex pieces of software. You must remember that when a company like Sun
or Microsoft develop a language and API their is more than the engineering
that is involved in it's development, there are political and financial
agendas. Thank for your input Juan, it is much appreciated.
- Dexter -
to are - First they are compiled to MISL (- which is machine code with
support for objects) when you develop your application. Next they are
compiled again when you run the application via the CLR. Yes the CLR
utilizes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan T. Llibre" <j.llibre@c...>
To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 8:18 AM
Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
> Hey, Peter, it was fairly clear to me...;>)
>
> You've basically restated what I wrote, but I have a few contentions :
>
> re :
> > Ok let's Clarify things here: - writing a compiler for Mac
> > and writing a CLR are obviously quite different.
>
> I would think so...
>
> re :
> > If a third party writes a CLR for a mainframe
> > it doesn't mean they will write a compiler
>
> How would they compile the CLR for their platform ?
>
> A CLR is a compiled runtime library
> which works hand-in-hand with JIT compilers.
>
> And...if a CLR is "compiled", I'd think that
> at least one compiler would be needed to compile it.
>
> Don't you ?
>
> re :
> > Once compiled to MISL
>
> You do mean MSIL, don't you ?
> ( I thought it was a typo, but saw that you typoed it twice...)
>
> re :
> > I am dead sure they won't write a VS7 IDE
> >(which is "windows" dependant) to run on a mainframe.
>
> I'd love to see the VS7 IDE running on a mainframe...;>)
> I think that hell would freeze over before that happens, though.
>
> Couldn't the third party just use VI ( Notepad equivalent ) and a compiler
?
> Source files are ascii. All you need is a compiler.
>
> Grant you, it wouldn't be a RAD environment...but it's certainly doable.
>
> re :
> > I don't see a huge market for compilers
>
> Just because you don't "see" the market, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
>
> re :
> > - it doesn't make sense when you have a awesome IDE like VS7
> > to use for development.
>
> If you're running Windows, that's true.
>
> I don't think that Microsoft will port VS7 to other platforms.
> [ It'd be a helluva job...;>) ]
>
> But I'd imagine that an IDE for Linux .NET
> development is not such a far-fetched idea.
>
> It wouldn't be VS7...but it would be a development time-saving IDE.
>
> We're into very speculative territory.
>
> Maybe we should go back to discussing
> code for what we have at hand...;>)
>
> regards,
>
>
> Juan T. Llibre
> Microsoft MVP [IIS/ASP]
> ASP.Net En Espaņol : http://207.176.17.140/
> =================================
>
Message #10 by "Mel C Solomon" <melsolomon@e...> on Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:01:18 -0800
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|
#Next it is compiled agian with a specified JIT complier -
#there are three different JIT compliers at this time and they are #platform
#specific. The CLR contains a - Base Class Library - Class Loader - #JIT
#Compiler - Verifier -, which produces managed native code to run on #that
#specified platform.
...Talking about JIT....what's this? More inputs please.....
Mel :)
__________________________________
www.edsamail.com
Message #11 by "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...> on Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:21:05 -0700
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Just in time compiler - or JITer's are super fast compilers which basically
turns MISL to machine code for a specific platform. Read page 14 and 15 of
"C# Programming the Public Beta" Wrox title. JIT's were first developed for
Java by a third party for use in there Virtual Machine.
- Dexter -
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mel C Solomon" <melsolomon@e...>
To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 12:01 PM
Subject: [aspx] Re: .Net and mainframe
>
> #Next it is compiled agian with a specified JIT complier -
> #there are three different JIT compliers at this time and they are
#platform
> #specific. The CLR contains a - Base Class Library - Class Loader - #JIT
> #Compiler - Verifier -, which produces managed native code to run on #that
> #specified platform.
>
> ...Talking about JIT....what's this? More inputs please.....
>
> Mel :)
>
> __________________________________
> www.edsamail.com
>
> ---
> SoftArtisans helps developers build robust, scalable Web applications!
> Excel Web reports, charts: http://www.softartisans.com/excelwriter.html
> File uploads: http://www.softartisans.com/saf.html
> Transactional file management: http://www.softartisans.com/saf1.html
> Scalability: http://www.softartisans.com/saxsession.html
> ASPstudio value pack: http://www.softartisans.com/aspstudiosuite.html
>
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