I need some help,



I have a page with 3 floating layers (using div/span tags). I am using these

layers as popup windows. On these windows are some form elements, such as

text boxes, submit buttons, etc.



The problem is that .NET only allows one runat server form per page. IE

works fine with one form tag that encapsulates all of the form layers.

Netscape however feels that this is invalid syntax (i think it wants

seperate forms inside of the layers for each) and refuses to show any form

elements at all.



So I have .NET demanding one form, and Netscape demanding several. Any

suggestions? Has anyone encountered this before?



Thanks much,



Henry Lee

I thought that DOTNET was browser neutral meaning that everything runs on

the server and only browser neutral html is returned, which means if your

browser only understands 3.0 then 3.0 is returned - if your browser only

understands 4.0 then 4.0 is returned.



- Pete Ehli -



----- Original Message -----

From: "Henry E. Lee, Jr." <hlee@l...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:29 AM

Subject: [aspx] Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> I need some help,

>

> I have a page with 3 floating layers (using div/span tags). I am using

these

> layers as popup windows. On these windows are some form elements, such as

> text boxes, submit buttons, etc.

>

> The problem is that .NET only allows one runat server form per page. IE

> works fine with one form tag that encapsulates all of the form layers.

> Netscape however feels that this is invalid syntax (i think it wants

> seperate forms inside of the layers for each) and refuses to show any form

> elements at all.

>

> So I have .NET demanding one form, and Netscape demanding several. Any

> suggestions? Has anyone encountered this before?

>

> Thanks much,

>

> Henry Lee

Opps sorry Henry I didn't read your message that closely. Your question is

about how Netscape and IE interprets form tags which I know nothing about -

sorry for the bogus post.



- Pete Ehli -



----- Original Message -----

From: "Henry E. Lee, Jr." <hlee@l...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:29 AM

Subject: [aspx] Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> I need some help,

>

> I have a page with 3 floating layers (using div/span tags). I am using

these

> layers as popup windows. On these windows are some form elements, such as

> text boxes, submit buttons, etc.

>

> The problem is that .NET only allows one runat server form per page. IE

> works fine with one form tag that encapsulates all of the form layers.

> Netscape however feels that this is invalid syntax (i think it wants

> seperate forms inside of the layers for each) and refuses to show any form

> elements at all.

>

> So I have .NET demanding one form, and Netscape demanding several. Any

> suggestions? Has anyone encountered this before?

>

> Thanks much,

>

> Henry Lee

Woooow, DOTNET is not what you are referring to, you are thinking about

Server Side controls.  If he has div/span tags in his HTML, then that 

is

what the browser gets.



Most likely he will have to resort to client side forms.  Unfortunately

cross browser development means coding for the lowest common 

denominator.

Another option is show a different form for each browser.  That sucks 

too,

but may make the browser issues disappear.  Then all you have to worry 

about

is maintaining two "sites".



tc





-----Original Message-----

From: Peter Ehli [mailto:peteehli@a...]

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:03 PM

To: ASP+

Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...



I thought that DOTNET was browser neutral meaning that everything runs 

on

the server and only browser neutral html is returned, which means if 

your

browser only understands 3.0 then 3.0 is returned - if your browser 

only

understands 4.0 then 4.0 is returned.



- Pete Ehli -



----- Original Message -----

From: "Henry E. Lee, Jr." <hlee@l...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:29 AM

Subject: [aspx] Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> I need some help,

>

> I have a page with 3 floating layers (using div/span tags). I am 

using

these

> layers as popup windows. On these windows are some form elements, 

such as

> text boxes, submit buttons, etc.

>

> The problem is that .NET only allows one runat server form per page. 

IE

> works fine with one form tag that encapsulates all of the form 

layers.

> Netscape however feels that this is invalid syntax (i think it wants

> seperate forms inside of the layers for each) and refuses to show any 

form

> elements at all.

>

> So I have .NET demanding one form, and Netscape demanding several. 

Any

> suggestions? Has anyone encountered this before?

>

> Thanks much,

>

> Henry Lee

Well, before you believe that DOTNET is browser nuetral, first realize that

Microsoft is the antithesis of browser nuetral. They only support Netscape

at all because users demand it. If it were up to them, they would nuke the

application from existence entirely.



DOTNET does not generate browser nuetral code. My entire development staff

has been completely unable to get anything more than a simple page to

function in Netscape using .NET.



In addition, the .NET server platform seems to hang for 20 seconds before

serving a page to a netscape browser on one of our developer's applications.



All of this could be a result of the beta version of .NET (versus final

version), but my gut along with thousands of examples from M$ in the past

make me feel that when all is said and done, .NET will be just another tool

Microsoft is using to require people to use IE.



Hank



----- Original Message -----

From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:02 PM

Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> I thought that DOTNET was browser neutral meaning that everything runs on

> the server and only browser neutral html is returned, which means if your

> browser only understands 3.0 then 3.0 is returned - if your browser only

> understands 4.0 then 4.0 is returned.

>

> - Pete Ehli -

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Henry E. Lee, Jr." <hlee@l...>

> To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:29 AM

> Subject: [aspx] Help! Netscape forms problem ...

>

>

> > I need some help,

> >

> > I have a page with 3 floating layers (using div/span tags). I am using

> these

> > layers as popup windows. On these windows are some form elements, such

as

> > text boxes, submit buttons, etc.

> >

> > The problem is that .NET only allows one runat server form per page. IE

> > works fine with one form tag that encapsulates all of the form layers.

> > Netscape however feels that this is invalid syntax (i think it wants

> > seperate forms inside of the layers for each) and refuses to show any

form

> > elements at all.

> >

> > So I have .NET demanding one form, and Netscape demanding several. Any

> > suggestions? Has anyone encountered this before?

> >

> > Thanks much,

> >

> > Henry Lee

> In addition, the .NET server platform seems to hang for 20 seconds before

> serving a page to a netscape browser on one of our developer's

applications



Not sure if this is relevant or not but when using Netscape to test pages on

a local machine, I go into the Task Manager and set its priority to Low.



Julian Roberts

http://charon.co.uk



----- Original Message -----

From: "Henry E. Lee, Jr." <hlee@l...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 8:59 PM

Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> Well, before you believe that DOTNET is browser nuetral, first realize

that

> Microsoft is the antithesis of browser nuetral. They only support Netscape

Well Hank I am just a product of my environment i.e. MSDN. This is a snippet

from a MS page:



Web Forms are an ASP.NET technology that you use to create programmable Web

pages. They can present information, using any markup language, to the user

in any browser and use code on the server to implement application logic.



Web Forms:



Can run on any browser and automatically render the correct,

browser-compliant HTML for features such as styles, layout, and so on.

Alternatively, you can design your Web form to run on a specific browser

such as Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 and take advantage of the features of

a rich browser client.



The statement below that I wrote is correct as far as IE is concerned (sorry

I thought that Netscape was included):



I thought that DOTNET was browser neutral meaning that everything runs on

the server and only browser neutral html is returned, which means if your

browser only understands 3.0 then 3.0 is returned - if your browser only

understands 4.0 then 4.0 is returned.



Again from MS:

The content generated by the WebControls renders in all commonly used

browsers. By detecting the client browser type and version, the WebControls

deliver a rich client solution to Internet Explorer 5.5 or later.



I tend to agree with you now that I have reread some of MS's product

descriptions. But you know it works both ways - Netscape it seems does their

best to make certain MS components not function in their browser. I had used

JSP for a about a year and it seemed to be as browser neutral as you are

going to get, because the JSP webservers are written by third parties.

Myself I dumped JSP because as my web scripting teacher put it "JSP is

clunky compared to (old)ASP". I love ASP.NET and IE. Also isn't IE the most

popular browser in use today? IMHO there is no comparison between Netscape

and IE - IE puts Netscape to shame. IMO If you are going to develop in .NET

you might as well develop for IE exclusively. I have used JSP, Tomcat and

Netscape and I don't ever want to go back. I would rather drive a Cadillac

than a Gremlin :-)



- Pete Ehli -





----- Original Message -----

From: "Henry E. Lee, Jr." <hlee@l...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:59 PM

Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> Well, before you believe that DOTNET is browser nuetral, first realize

that

> Microsoft is the antithesis of browser nuetral. They only support Netscape

> at all because users demand it. If it were up to them, they would nuke the

> application from existence entirely.

>

> DOTNET does not generate browser nuetral code. My entire development staff

> has been completely unable to get anything more than a simple page to

> function in Netscape using .NET.

>

> In addition, the .NET server platform seems to hang for 20 seconds before

> serving a page to a netscape browser on one of our developer's

applications.

>

> All of this could be a result of the beta version of .NET (versus final

> version), but my gut along with thousands of examples from M$ in the past

> make me feel that when all is said and done, .NET will be just another

tool

> Microsoft is using to require people to use IE.

>

> Hank

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>

> To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:02 PM

> Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...

>

>

> > I thought that DOTNET was browser neutral meaning that everything runs

on

> > the server and only browser neutral html is returned, which means if

your

> > browser only understands 3.0 then 3.0 is returned - if your browser only

> > understands 4.0 then 4.0 is returned.

> >

> > - Pete Ehli -

While it may be true the the people within the Browser building may still 

be obsessing about global domination for IE, I would hope that the rest of

the Microsoft campus had moved on from that :). As the web and the internet

develop, then simply browsing around passively looking at pages will become

less and less of a major part of what the web is used for... agonising

over new and more ingeneous ways to torpedo your competition's web browser

would be a very cute way of hoseing your company's research budget, when 

there much bigger fish to fry. Indeed the days are gone when a single 

browser will meet the needs of many web-users. I have three browsers on

this machine, and I use all three, because there are times when the 

functionality offered by one beats that of the other two. It is true that 

when the only tool you have is hammer, everything starts to look like a 

nail, but with ever more elaborate things you can do on the web becoming 

available, then not every problem you want to solve actually looks like a

webpage. If your business is repairing antique clocks, it doesn't really

matter if Stanley and Co's hammers are far superior to Forgemasters & Pty 

Ltd's hammers, does it?



As the web evolves, then we'll start using things to interact with it which 

don't even look or act like browsers. That, as far as I can see it, is what 

.NET is about - not some amazingly subtle new means of driving Netscape out 

of business :).



Daniel Walker

Definitions:

Internet Explorer: a large, FTP client that is supplied with Microsoft 

Windows for use in downloading Opera

Konqueror (aka: "Yapudo"): Yet Another Program Used for Downloading Opera



> Well, before you believe that DOTNET is browser nuetral, first realize that

> Microsoft is the antithesis of browser nuetral. They only support Netscape

> at all because users demand it. If it were up to them, they would nuke the

> application from existence entirely.

> 

> DOTNET does not generate browser nuetral code. My entire development staff

> has been completely unable to get anything more than a simple page to

> function in Netscape using .NET.

> 

> In addition, the .NET server platform seems to hang for 20 seconds before

> serving a page to a netscape browser on one of our developer's applications.

> 

> All of this could be a result of the beta version of .NET (versus final

> version), but my gut along with thousands of examples from M$ in the past

> make me feel that when all is said and done, .NET will be just another tool

> Microsoft is using to require people to use IE.

> 

> Hank

> 

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>

> To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:02 PM

> Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...

> 

> 

> > I thought that DOTNET was browser neutral meaning that everything runs on

> > the server and only browser neutral html is returned, which means if your

> > browser only understands 3.0 then 3.0 is returned - if your browser only

> > understands 4.0 then 4.0 is returned.

> >

> > - Pete Ehli -

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "Henry E. Lee, Jr." <hlee@l...>

> > To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

> > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:29 AM

> > Subject: [aspx] Help! Netscape forms problem ...

> >

> >

> > > I need some help,

> > >

> > > I have a page with 3 floating layers (using div/span tags). I am using

> > these

> > > layers as popup windows. On these windows are some form elements, such

> as

> > > text boxes, submit buttons, etc.

> > >

> > > The problem is that .NET only allows one runat server form per page. IE

> > > works fine with one form tag that encapsulates all of the form layers.

> > > Netscape however feels that this is invalid syntax (i think it wants

> > > seperate forms inside of the layers for each) and refuses to show any

> form

> > > elements at all.

> > >

> > > So I have .NET demanding one form, and Netscape demanding several. Any

> > > suggestions? Has anyone encountered this before?

> > >

> > > Thanks much,

> > >

> > > Henry Lee

> 

I agree with everything you say about IE versus Netscape, and NS being a

hunk of crap. My entire company loathes the inferior product. Problem is my

clients, even though none of them use netscape, always demand it work in

netscape ... so our team gets frustrated, since it usually means doing

everything twice.



Hank



----- Original Message -----

From: "Peter Ehli" <peteehli@a...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:18 PM

Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> Well Hank I am just a product of my environment i.e. MSDN. This is a

snippet

> from a MS page:

>

> Web Forms are an ASP.NET technology that you use to create programmable

Web

> pages. They can present information, using any markup language, to the

user

> in any browser and use code on the server to implement application logic.

>

> Web Forms:

>

> Can run on any browser and automatically render the correct,

> browser-compliant HTML for features such as styles, layout, and so on.

> Alternatively, you can design your Web form to run on a specific browser

> such as Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 and take advantage of the features

of

> a rich browser client.

>

> The statement below that I wrote is correct as far as IE is concerned

(sorry

> I thought that Netscape was included):

>

> I thought that DOTNET was browser neutral meaning that everything runs on

> the server and only browser neutral html is returned, which means if your

> browser only understands 3.0 then 3.0 is returned - if your browser only

> understands 4.0 then 4.0 is returned.

>

> Again from MS:

> The content generated by the WebControls renders in all commonly used

> browsers. By detecting the client browser type and version, the

WebControls

> deliver a rich client solution to Internet Explorer 5.5 or later.

>

> I tend to agree with you now that I have reread some of MS's product

> descriptions. But you know it works both ways - Netscape it seems does

their

> best to make certain MS components not function in their browser. I had

used

> JSP for a about a year and it seemed to be as browser neutral as you are

> going to get, because the JSP webservers are written by third parties.

> Myself I dumped JSP because as my web scripting teacher put it "JSP is

> clunky compared to (old)ASP". I love ASP.NET and IE. Also isn't IE the

most

> popular browser in use today? IMHO there is no comparison between Netscape

> and IE - IE puts Netscape to shame. IMO If you are going to develop in

.NET

> you might as well develop for IE exclusively. I have used JSP, Tomcat and

> Netscape and I don't ever want to go back. I would rather drive a Cadillac

> than a Gremlin :-)

>

> - Pete Ehli -

>

>

Daniel,



Everything you say is true. The problem is that my clients live in today,

not tommorow. While the long-term goal of .NET may be to save the world, my

clients want it to work for them today.



Hank



----- Original Message -----

From: "Daniel Walker" <danielw@w...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 4:11 PM

Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> While it may be true the the people within the Browser building may still

> be obsessing about global domination for IE, I would hope that the rest of

> the Microsoft campus had moved on from that :). As the web and the

internet

> develop, then simply browsing around passively looking at pages will

become

> less and less of a major part of what the web is used for... agonising

> over new and more ingeneous ways to torpedo your competition's web browser

> would be a very cute way of hoseing your company's research budget, when

> there much bigger fish to fry. Indeed the days are gone when a single

> browser will meet the needs of many web-users. I have three browsers on

> this machine, and I use all three, because there are times when the

> functionality offered by one beats that of the other two. It is true that

> when the only tool you have is hammer, everything starts to look like a

> nail, but with ever more elaborate things you can do on the web becoming

> available, then not every problem you want to solve actually looks like a

> webpage. If your business is repairing antique clocks, it doesn't really

> matter if Stanley and Co's hammers are far superior to Forgemasters & Pty

> Ltd's hammers, does it?

>

> As the web evolves, then we'll start using things to interact with it

which

> don't even look or act like browsers. That, as far as I can see it, is

what

> .NET is about - not some amazingly subtle new means of driving Netscape

out

> of business :).

>

> Daniel Walker

> Definitions:

> Internet Explorer: a large, FTP client that is supplied with Microsoft

> Windows for use in downloading Opera

> Konqueror (aka: "Yapudo"): Yet Another Program Used for Downloading Opera

>

> > Well, before you believe that DOTNET is browser nuetral, first realize

that

> > Microsoft is the antithesis of browser nuetral. They only support

Netscape

> > at all because users demand it. If it were up to them, they would nuke

the

> > application from existence entirely.

> >

> > DOTNET does not generate browser nuetral code. My entire development

staff

> > has been completely unable to get anything more than a simple page to

> > function in Netscape using .NET.

> >

> > In addition, the .NET server platform seems to hang for 20 seconds

before

> > serving a page to a netscape browser on one of our developer's

applications.

> >

> > All of this could be a result of the beta version of .NET (versus final

> > version), but my gut along with thousands of examples from M$ in the

past

> > make me feel that when all is said and done, .NET will be just another

tool

> > Microsoft is using to require people to use IE.

> >

> > Hank

> >

> My entire company loathes the inferior product



Perhaps this gives us all heart :)



http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010606/n05260410_2.html



Julian Roberts

http://charon.co.uk

+44 (0)1743 885122





----- Original Message -----

From: "Henry E. Lee, Jr." <hlee@l...>

To: "ASP+" <aspx@p...>

Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 8:59 PM

Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...





> I agree with everything you say about IE versus Netscape, and NS being a

> hunk of crap. My entire company loathes the inferior product. Problem is

my

I have one price that I charge for IE development and another for NS.  

No

body takes me up on the charge for NS ;)



Your customers should pay more to get more.  Pure capitalism.



tc

Good, fast and cheap...pick two.





-----Original Message-----

From: Henry E. Lee, Jr. [mailto:hlee@l...]

Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 3:00 PM

To: ASP+

Subject: [aspx] Re: Help! Netscape forms problem ...



I agree with everything you say about IE versus Netscape, and NS being 

a

hunk of crap. My entire company loathes the inferior product. Problem 

is my

clients, even though none of them use netscape, always demand it work 

in

netscape ... so our team gets frustrated, since it usually means doing

everything twice.



Hank