I purchased Wrox Beginning ASP .Net with Visual Basic. I assumed from the 

title that it dealt with coding ASP .Net in the VS .Net IDE with VB .Net 

as the language of choice. Wrong!



Since then, I have not found one book that deals with ASP .Net as coded 

from within the VS .Net IDE. They all seem to be written for people who 

have a love affair with Notepad.



Is anyone familiar with any ASP .Net books written for the user who will 

be developing primarily or solely from within the VS .Net IDE?



A. Russell Jones is releasing one through Sybex soon, but I don't know if 

it's going to be along the lines of the Wrox book or if it will actually 

deal with the IDE.



Thanks!



j

The reason there aren't many books that deal with VS.NET was because at

the time of their writing, VS.NET was still in beta. Now that it's out

I'm sure more will be using it.  I agree with the books that have been

released that use notepad.  I would much rather learn the basics of

ASP.NET and the framework by hand at first so you know how things work

under the covers.  I read Beginning ASP.NET Using C# and thought the

book was an excellent starter book.  It also only used notepad, but I'm

glad that it did as I picked up a ton of tips and tricks of doing things

outside an IDE.



There are a couple of books that use VS.NET somewhat through the book:



C# .NET Web Developer's Guide (Syngress)

Professional ADO.NET (Wrox)

Microsoft ASP.NET Step by Step (Microsoft Press)

C# and the .NET Platform (apress)



Hope these  help.



Doug



-----Original Message-----

From: jude@j... [mailto:jude@j...] 

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 1:03 AM

To: aspx_beginners

Subject: [aspx_beginners] Curious about ASP .Net books...





I purchased Wrox Beginning ASP .Net with Visual Basic. I assumed from

the 

title that it dealt with coding ASP .Net in the VS .Net IDE with VB .Net



as the language of choice. Wrong!



Since then, I have not found one book that deals with ASP .Net as coded 

from within the VS .Net IDE. They all seem to be written for people who 

have a love affair with Notepad.



Is anyone familiar with any ASP .Net books written for the user who will



be developing primarily or solely from within the VS .Net IDE?



A. Russell Jones is releasing one through Sybex soon, but I don't know

if 

it's going to be along the lines of the Wrox book or if it will actually



deal with the IDE.



Thanks!



j




$subst('Email.Unsub').

Yeah, Doug, I was hopeful that beta 2 might've been used as a model for a 

book. It's probably best they wait and publish one based off of the 

release version.



I'm having a lousy time with MS's revamped "help" system.

Worse than that, the code in the Beginning Visual Basic .NET book will

not run on the final release version of VS.NET and the publisher hasn't

responded to my request for help four weeks ago.  I'm waiting for a book

that is compatible with the final release.



> -----Original Message-----

> From: jude@j... [mailto:jude@j...]

> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 5:31 PM

> To: aspx_beginners

> Subject: [aspx_beginners] RE: Curious about ASP .Net books...

> 

> Yeah, Doug, I was hopeful that beta 2 might've been used as a model

for a

> book. It's probably best they wait and publish one based off of the

> release version.

> 

> I'm having a lousy time with MS's revamped "help" system.



> to unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-aspx_beginners-

> 793387L@p...

Yikes! I didn't know that. I gave up on the last 90% of the book when I 

saw it didn't cover the IDE.



They should do something with the errata or change the downloadable code.



I wonder if the other Wrox books I have about .Net have the same problem. 

I don't need a book to run code that doesn't work. I can write that myself.

aspx_beginners@p... writes:

>Yikes! I didn't know that. I gave up on the last 90% of the book when I 

>saw it didn't cover the IDE.

>

>They should do something with the errata or change the downloadable code.

>

>I wonder if the other Wrox books I have about .Net have the same problem. 

>I don't need a book to run code that doesn't work. I can write that

>myself.



I think a few folks here are being a bit hard on the Wrox writers.  It

seems their big error in judgement might have been to try to get something

out as quickly as possible for the ASP (or should we say ASAP) development

community.  They couldn't anticipate the changes between Beta 1 and Beta 2

or between Beta 2 and Final. They can't be held responsible for what

happens behind the scenes at Redmond.



Brian

Hey folks,



	You know you guys can check out:

	http://msdn.microsoft.com/training/seminars/

	and

	http://msdn.microsoft.com/events/quarterlyevent.asp



	They have excellent online tutorials (like an online web class)

on ASP.NET (or any other Microsoft technology) and all of those examples

there are done in VS.NET. And it's streaming video, like watching

someone do it in front of your eyes!



Have fun,

Minh.







_________________________________________________________



Do You Yahoo!?



Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Maybe you know something I don't know.  I haven't gotten any response

from them.  My question was whether the code was not working because of

the change from beta 2 to the final release.  I haven't gotten an answer

to that question, and I've been waiting for nearly a month.



> -----Original Message-----

> From: Brian Fairholm [mailto:bfairholm@n...]

> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:24 PM

> To: aspx_beginners

> Cc: aspx_beginners@p...

> Subject: [aspx_beginners] RE: Curious about ASP .Net books...

> 

> aspx_beginners@p... writes:

> >Yikes! I didn't know that. I gave up on the last 90% of the book when

I

> >saw it didn't cover the IDE.

> >

> >They should do something with the errata or change the downloadable

code.

> >

> >I wonder if the other Wrox books I have about .Net have the same

problem.

> >I don't need a book to run code that doesn't work. I can write that

> >myself.

> 

> I think a few folks here are being a bit hard on the Wrox writers.  It

> seems their big error in judgement might have been to try to get

something

> out as quickly as possible for the ASP (or should we say ASAP)

development

> community.  They couldn't anticipate the changes between Beta 1 and

Beta 2

> or between Beta 2 and Final. They can't be held responsible for what

> happens behind the scenes at Redmond.

> 

> Brian

> 

> 



> to unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-aspx_beginners-

> 818575C@p...

In the "old days," a similar book might've been called _ASP With 

VBScript_. When they used the title _ASP.Net with VB.Net_ I assumed, for 

some reason, it would deal with, at least in part, coding in the IDE. I 

guess a more accurate title would've been _ASP.Net With Notepad Using 

VB.Net Syntax_.



In otherwords, even if there were changes between beta 2 and the release 

version causing some of the published code to be incorrect, at least a few 

chapters could've still addressed coding in the IDE, IMHO.



With the cost of IT books being what it is, I can't afford to make 

mistakes in what I purchase. Caveat emptor, I guess. Virtually all of the 

books I own are Wrox; I just should've held off on this particular title 

because it didn't address my needs. Anywho, I am straying from my original 

question...

Hi -



Is there any way you can check out the books before you buy them? Here in 

Seattle (an admittedly high-tech town, and which leans toward MS 

technologies) Barnes and Noble has a HUGE technology section with (I 

think) all the current Wrox titles, and many others. If I know I want a 

book I buy it online, usually at Amazon because of their prices. If there 

is any question about the content of the book I drive over to B&N and 

look at it. Just recently I wanted a book on .NET. Amazon, through their 

incredible marketing business logic, had figured out exactly what books I 

am presently interested in. (No matter what people say about Amazon, 

regarding their financial bottom line, etc., I think they have some 

pretty deep things to teach the Internet community about using technology 

to effectively market.) The book they were pushing was "Beginning 

VB.NET". I very nearly bought it online. If I had I think I would have 

been disappointed. I went over to B&N, got a cup of coffee at Starbucks 

at their cafe, and, with the clerk's permission brought it to the 

technology section and for the next hour compared "Beginning VB.NET" 

with "ASP.NET with VB.NET". Lots of other people were doing the same 

thing. B&N seems to invite this. I ended up buying "ASP.NET with VB.NET," 

and I'm not sorry I did. 



Sorry this got so long, but I think Wrox books are the best because of 

the human element they add, and because they make learning dry code 

inspiring. They are, in my opinion, setting a new paradigm in technical 

communication. This is just my opinion.



Dan

There's no doubt in my mind that Wrox books are excellent.  I'm just

disappointed that I can't get a response from them on why the code in

Beginning VB.NET (written for the beta 2 release) does not work on the

final release of ASP.NET included with the final release of VS.NET.  I'm

getting an error saying there's something wrong with the "clear" method

used in the book's code and I can't get anyone to explain it to me.  I'm

truly a "beginner" and I can't figure this out on my own.  I've always

gotten quick responses from them before, but this time they've dropped

the ball.



> -----Original Message-----

> From: Dan McKinnon [mailto:mddonna@q...]

> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:25 PM

> To: aspx_beginners

> Subject: [aspx_beginners] RE: Curious about ASP .Net books...

> 

> Hi -

> 

> Is there any way you can check out the books before you buy them? Here

in

> Seattle (an admittedly high-tech town, and which leans toward MS

> technologies) Barnes and Noble has a HUGE technology section with (I

> think) all the current Wrox titles, and many others. If I know I want

a

> book I buy it online, usually at Amazon because of their prices. If

there

> is any question about the content of the book I drive over to B&N and

> look at it. Just recently I wanted a book on .NET. Amazon, through

their

> incredible marketing business logic, had figured out exactly what

books I

> am presently interested in. (No matter what people say about Amazon,

> regarding their financial bottom line, etc., I think they have some

> pretty deep things to teach the Internet community about using

technology

> to effectively market.) The book they were pushing was "Beginning

> VB.NET". I very nearly bought it online. If I had I think I would have

> been disappointed. I went over to B&N, got a cup of coffee at

Starbucks

> at their cafe, and, with the clerk's permission brought it to the

> technology section and for the next hour compared "Beginning VB.NET"

> with "ASP.NET with VB.NET". Lots of other people were doing the same

> thing. B&N seems to invite this. I ended up buying "ASP.NET with

VB.NET,"

> and I'm not sorry I did.

> 

> Sorry this got so long, but I think Wrox books are the best because of

> the human element they add, and because they make learning dry code

> inspiring. They are, in my opinion, setting a new paradigm in

technical

> communication. This is just my opinion.

> 

> Dan

> 

> 

> 

> 



> to unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-aspx_beginners-

> 793387L@p...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: <jude@j...>

Subject: [aspx_beginners] RE: Curious about ASP .Net books...





: In the "old days," a similar book might've been called _ASP With

: VBScript_. When they used the title _ASP.Net with VB.Net_ I assumed, for

: some reason, it would deal with, at least in part, coding in the IDE. I

: guess a more accurate title would've been _ASP.Net With Notepad Using

: VB.Net Syntax_.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



VB.Net is *not* an IDE. VB.Net is a language. Hence the title of the book

is, IMHO, appropriate.

What you really wanted was a different book called "Beginning ASP.Net with

VB.Net using Visual Studio".



Since the IDE costs a bundle (the version I'm using costs $4,999 here in

Australia), writing a book that deals only with ASP.Net using VB.Net that

uses the Visual Studio IDE to develop everything would alienate those people

using Notepad, or Homesite or UltraEdit32 or any one of a number of other,

cheaper, editors.



That all said, you can still use any of the code in the book in the Visual

Studio IDE, for example, by just creating single-page .aspx files without

Code Behind.



Cheers

Ken

Check out ASP.NET Unleashed if you want a very good book on ASP.NET and

VB.NET.  I don't think it covers the IDE much either, though.



Steve





Steven Smith, MCSE+Internet, Microsoft MVP: ASP.NET

ssmith@a...

President, ASPAlliance.com

http://aspalliance.com    The #1 ASP.NET Community

http://aspsmith.com        ASP.NET Training for ASP Developers



Learning ASP.NET?  Get My Book: ASP.NET By Example

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0789725622/stevenatorasp/

----- Original Message -----

From: <jude@j...>

To: "aspx_beginners" <aspx_beginners@p...>

Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:13 PM

Subject: [aspx_beginners] RE: Curious about ASP .Net books...





> In the "old days," a similar book might've been called _ASP With

> VBScript_. When they used the title _ASP.Net with VB.Net_ I assumed, for

> some reason, it would deal with, at least in part, coding in the IDE. I

> guess a more accurate title would've been _ASP.Net With Notepad Using

> VB.Net Syntax_.

>

> In otherwords, even if there were changes between beta 2 and the release

> version causing some of the published code to be incorrect, at least a few

> chapters could've still addressed coding in the IDE, IMHO.

>

> With the cost of IT books being what it is, I can't afford to make

> mistakes in what I purchase. Caveat emptor, I guess. Virtually all of the

> books I own are Wrox; I just should've held off on this particular title

> because it didn't address my needs. Anywho, I am straying from my original

> question...




$subst('Email.Unsub').

>

have a look at some of the onLine presentation seminars, for example

Architecting a .NET solution... there's loads more like this



http://www.microsoft.com/Seminar/Includes/Seminar.asp?url=/Seminar/en/develo

pers/20010710devt1-21/portal.xml#aTop



Phil



-----Original Message-----

From: Steven A Smith [mailto:ssmith@a...]

Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:53 AM

To: aspx_beginners

Subject: [aspx_beginners] RE: Curious about ASP .Net books...





Check out ASP.NET Unleashed if you want a very good book on ASP.NET and

VB.NET.  I don't think it covers the IDE much either, though.



Steve





Steven Smith, MCSE+Internet, Microsoft MVP: ASP.NET

ssmith@a...

President, ASPAlliance.com

http://aspalliance.com    The #1 ASP.NET Community

http://aspsmith.com        ASP.NET Training for ASP Developers



Learning ASP.NET?  Get My Book: ASP.NET By Example

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0789725622/stevenatorasp/

----- Original Message -----

From: <jude@j...>

To: "aspx_beginners" <aspx_beginners@p...>

Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:13 PM

Subject: [aspx_beginners] RE: Curious about ASP .Net books...





> In the "old days," a similar book might've been called _ASP With

> VBScript_. When they used the title _ASP.Net with VB.Net_ I assumed, for

> some reason, it would deal with, at least in part, coding in the IDE. I

> guess a more accurate title would've been _ASP.Net With Notepad Using

> VB.Net Syntax_.

>

> In otherwords, even if there were changes between beta 2 and the release

> version causing some of the published code to be incorrect, at least a few

> chapters could've still addressed coding in the IDE, IMHO.

>

> With the cost of IT books being what it is, I can't afford to make

> mistakes in what I purchase. Caveat emptor, I guess. Virtually all of the

> books I own are Wrox; I just should've held off on this particular title

> because it didn't address my needs. Anywho, I am straying from my original

> question...




$subst('Email.Unsub').

>








$subst('Email.Unsub').

Interesting feedback! Just as .Net has changed the programming paradigm, 

it has also changed my book-buying paradigm.



My early .Net book purchases (four Wrox books, to date) took place before 

I did much work in the IDE. Because sooooooo much has changed, I wasn't 

sure of what to look for in .Net books. I assumed that any new book 

with "VB" in the title would concern itself with the VB .Net IDE. 

Obviously, this was a given with VB6. Surprise!



Now, with ASP .Net using the VB .Net syntax as opposed to a subset of VB, 

such as VBScript, I can't count on the above any longer.



I did get a confirm that A. Russell Jone's forthcoming Sybex tome will 

deal with ASP .Net from within the IDE. I also thought Balena's MS Press 

book on VB was the best all-around book on that language. Maybe he'll do 

an encore for .Net (covering ASP .Net, as well).



j

Hi Carl, and everyone else who's contributed to this thread.



There's a few issues raised here that I think I should help tackle for 

you guys. Let's start with the Beta 2 issue.



Back when we first decided to produce this book, Microsoft were aiming 

for Septemberish for the full release of .NET. Now, we all know how 

product launches from Microsoft work, and of course, the situation 

changed considerably from the point at which we started writing to the 

point at which the books were on the shelves. We were assured repeatedly 

by the guys at Microsoft that Beta 2 code would be almost identical to 

final release code, but of course, there were issues and problems all 

over the place that needed fixing, and the code changed a bit in certain 

areas. Now, I'm not going to hit on the MS guys too much, because as a 

result of fixing those issues, .NET and ASP.NET version 1 is a much 

stronger product. This has lead to our beta 2 books becoming slightly 

error-laden in some aspects because of the code changes.



Our solution to this problem for you guys is to do all we can to update 

the code on all of our Beta 2 books. Carl, I'm sorry you're having 

trouble with your code - I've not been paying as much attention to this 

list as I need to, and I've missed your problem. Please feel free to 

reply to me off the list (chrisg@w...) and I'll see what I can do to 

fix your problem for you. In the meantime, we should be posting up-to-

date code on the Wrox site soon. I'm not sure of details, so I can't make 

any promises here.



The next issue I wanted to address is the VB.NET issue. When we decided 

to produce this book, we were very concious of the fact that previous 

books in a similar vein had taught VBScript to a certain extent. We 

wanted to do the same for VB.NET and C# in two editions of the book, and 

teach the language. The full Visual Studio .NET IDE is expensive, and we 

wanted our book to be as inclusive as possible. Add to that the fact that 

by teaching the language, not the IDE, you can learn a lot more about how 

to structure your code, and not just drag and drop elements from a 

toolbar. Personally, I'm much more on the side of "learn the language, 

then use the IDE" crowd than the "use the IDE then learn the theory". 

Some people will disagree, but I guess you can't please all the people 

all the time. I don't like the way Visual Studio can change my code - and 

it does do that. I don't like the fact that to teach a basic "hello 

world" example, I'm looking at 15+ pages of fluff to go alongside my two-

liner .aspx page. Visual Studio .NET is a vast product, capable of 

confusing those new to ASP.NET, who don't want to leap into enterprise 

development - they just want to achieve solid results with simple pages 

that still do some cool stuff.



Since we produced the book, MS decided they were going to sell the VB.NET 

part and the C# parts individually in their own products for a fraction 

of the price. Having said that, an IDE + ASP.NET book would probably be a 

good book (we're working on it :), but teaching an IDE on top of teaching 

the basics of ASP.NET and a language just isn't practical

 

I hope I've answered some of your questions.



thanks,

Chris



> There's no doubt in my mind that Wrox books are excellent.  I'm just

> disappointed that I can't get a response from them on why the code in

> Beginning VB.NET (written for the beta 2 release) does not work on the

> final release of ASP.NET included with the final release of VS.NET.  I'm

> getting an error saying there's something wrong with the "clear" method

> used in the book's code and I can't get anyone to explain it to me.  I'm

> truly a "beginner" and I can't figure this out on my own.  I've always

> gotten quick responses from them before, but this time they've dropped

> the ball.

How do I create a single aspx page in Visual Studio .Net... I always get the

code behind version... Is there a template for this...





Thanks,

Cliff Schneide

Web Developer

Computer Aid Inc.