Hope you don't mind if I weigh in on this discussion of frames.

I use frames in my sites only when they add an enhancement to the overall
design or objective. For example, if the "main" frame is text only and I
want it to load quickly and gracefully, and I don't want any pages other
than the index page bookmarked, that is a good place for frames. For
example, a "brochure" type website like this one, where being simple was an
objective.

http://sjdes.com/free-analysis

I wouldn't use frames just because I like them (I don't actually), or
because it just seems like a good idea. Make sure there is a good specific
reason for it. If there is, go ahead, otherwise, stick with tables. Make
template pages for easy maintanence. Let the site's objectives dictate the
technology you use to design, not the other way around.

As for the search engine comments, every engine works differently and there
is a never ending "cat and mouse" game between the engines and designers
trying to outsmart each other. Some engines ignore meta tags altogether, so
for those you would have to find other ways.

You could make a full time job of catering to that chaos, or just design a
good website and let cybernature take its course. I know that viewpoint may
get some argument, but don't forget about good old fashioned word of mouth
and marketing in the real world.  With so much out there to see, I tend to
follow links on recommendations more so than engine rankings anyway. I am
also more likely to spend money at recommended sites, than those I find by
wandering the engines.

I hope that "food for thought" is helpful,
Steve D.
http://www.applebucket.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernard Sypniewski" <syp@e...>
To: "HTML Code Clinic" <html_code_clinic@p...>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 5:26 AM
Subject: [html_code_clinic] Re: Tables instead of Frames


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Schaefer" <ken@a...>
> To: "HTML Code Clinic" <html_code_clinic@p...>
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 9:31 PM
> Subject: [html_code_clinic] Re: Tables instead of Frames
>
>
> > As a general rule, frames aren't used much anymore:
> > a) It's difficult to link to pages other than your homepage
>
> This is interesting. I've never had this problem. Could you explain what
you
> mean in more detail?
>
> > b) Some search engines used to have problems indexing framed sites
>
> Couldn't this be addressed in the META-tags on the home page?
>
> >
> > Unless you use some kind of floating DHTML, the menu at the top of the
> page
> > will scroll off the screen when using tables instead of frames - just
look
> > at any site, try www.microsoft.com for example - the top most menu
> structure
> > disappears as you scroll down.
>
> Of course, this is rather simple to do with frames.
> I appreciate your comments and look forward to a discussion of a problem
> that I didn't know occurred.
>
> Bernard Sypniewski