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beginning_php thread: newbie questions


Message #1 by "keith sherrell" <keshe@a...> on Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:57:31
I have several questions and my are based on php4websolutions. Is this the
right forum?
Message #2 by "Nikolai Devereaux" <yomama@u...> on Tue, 11 Feb 2003 13:19:45 -0800
> I have several questions and my are based on php4websolutions. Is this the
> right forum?

This forum, though it's named after the Wrox book, "Beginning PHP", doesn't
necessarily cater only to that book.  Most PHP questions can be asked (and
hopefully answered) here.


Take care,

Nik

Message #3 by "keith sherrell" <keshe@a...> on Tue, 11 Feb 2003 23:23:24
Okay, here they go.

Okay, one of the chapters in php4webdev, has a possible solution for me on 
a project. However I have these problems

Is there any working demos of this script?
Are there bugs?
If so where do I find them.
Without some addons the project would not work. Are there scripts with the 
suggested addons? Demos?

When I downloaded the zip, and unzipped it it did not display as wrox 
support says it should have, just a huge list of files of what 2700 files. 
Is there some reason that "quick zip" would not unzip it properly?

Enough for now I guess.

Message #4 by "Nikolai Devereaux" <yomama@u...> on Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:55:25 -0800
The answers to the first few questions pretty much pertain to all technical
books:

> Is there any working demos of this script?

Generally, you'd download the script files and view them on your own
webserver.


> Are there bugs?  If so where do I find them.

Any known bugs should be in the errata pages for the book.


> Without some addons the project would not work. Are there scripts with the
> suggested addons? Demos?

The PHP community is great about creating sample scripts, demos, utility
libraries and classes, etc...  Look in places like hotscripts, phpbuilder,
php.net's links page.  http://www.php.net/links


> When I downloaded the zip, and unzipped it it did not display as wrox
> support says it should have, just a huge list of files of what 2700 files.
> Is there some reason that "quick zip" would not unzip it properly?

I just downloaded the zip file.  It contains 2115 files in a bunch of
directories.  Each chapter has it's own directory.  I haven't used QuickZip
before, but don't see any reason why it wouldn't handle the zip file
correctly.


As far as this (and other developer community lists) are concerned, if the
solution in a book is close to what you need, you're pretty much on your own
to figure out how to tweak it to get it to work for you.  If you have problems
along the way, feel free to ask questions, but no one on this list will (or
should) take the time to solve your problems for you if you're not willing to
try to solve them yourself first.



hope this helps,

Nik

Message #5 by "keith sherrell" <keshe@a...> on Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:59:04
Come on work with me here. Does the the scripts in the book work? We all 
know that PHP is not stand alone, but if there is not a demo site set up, 
then it really makes me think the program doesn't work. Not trying to be a 
jerk. Is there working demos?

I paid $50 dollars for a paperback book as it seemed to have a code done 
that I needed.

bugs, again back to the demos. I thought this site would have the final 
copy and any known bugs would be here. I don't see any in the book.

Again I was looking for a working demo with the add ones the book says(and 
we know) would be needed to make it a business solution.

Does this site not have working demos of the sites in their book? It seems 
the simple answer is no. This would a logical thing to do. 

Quickzip did not open the file as it was supposed. I have no interest to 
try until I know more details. 
Message #6 by "David Scott-Bigsby" <DScott-Bigsby@P...> on Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:03 -0800
> From: keith sherrell [mailto:keshe@a...]
> ...
> Come on work with me here.
> ....
> I paid $50 dollars for a paperback book as it seemed to have
> a code done that I needed.
> ...
> Does this site not have working demos of the sites in their
> book? It seems
> the simple answer is no. This would a logical thing to do.
> ...
> Quickzip did not open the file as it was supposed. I have no
> interest to try until I know more details.

Keith,

I think you've mistaken this list for Wrox's online support. It's not. 
If you look in your new book, or on the Wrox website, you'll find 
contact information for Wrox staff. You may even find your questions 
already answered.

This list is where PHP users ask and answer questions about PHP and, 
occasionally, related technologies. Some people use it to discuss the 
book (cf. "Chapter 8 session problem"), others (like me) don't own the 
book, but find it a helpful community.

None of us are under any obligation to "work with you" -- we didn't 
write the book (or QuickZip) -- but if you watch the type of questions 
that get posted and which ones get answered, you can learn how to get 
get the most from your participation.

dsb

***************************************       
David Scott-Bigsby
Product Manager, Web Site and PEDN

PureEdge Solutions
The Leader in Secure XML e-Forms

v:250-708-8145  f:250-708-8010
1-888-517-2675   www.PureEdge.com
***************************************

Message #7 by "keith sherrell" <keshe@a...> on Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:18:33
Well thank you for your reply. I was directed here by the support staff. 
Should I under take this project I'm sure I will use the forum a great 
deal. I just had some very simple questions and I still have gotten very 
few straight answers from this forum and the staff at wrox. I understand 
this is an open forum and no one here is obligated to do anything. I 
understand that qickzip or me perhaps downloaded the file incorrectly. I 
simply wanted to know if the programs in the books all worked and if there 
were some demos set up.

Can no one answer these very simple questions? 
Message #8 by Jacob Cohen <cohen@r...> on Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:38:51 -0800
Hello Keith,

keshe@a... wrote:
> understand that qickzip or me perhaps downloaded the file incorrectly. I 
> simply wanted to know if the programs in the books all worked and if there 
> were some demos set up.
> Can no one answer these very simple questions?

Here's a straight answer for you: No. There are no demos set up.
The code provided in technical books is assumed to be working code,
and the user of the book can use the code in the appropriate
environment. For example, if you bought a C++ book, the sample code
should be able to be compiled by your average C++ compiler, and run,
and do what it was supposed to do.

For a PHP book, the sample code must be run on a web server that
supports PHP. There is a wealth of documentation on www.php.net
describing how to set one of these up, even just a simple server
running on your own machine to test things out. It will be virtually
impossible to do any real development in PHP without having a PHP
server (even as simple as your own machine) set up for testing your
scripts.

If you're running Windows 2000 or Windows XP, you should be able to
install IIS off the CD that the operating system came on. www.php.net
then has instructions on installing PHP as an ISAPI filter on IIS. If
you are running a different operating system, you might want to look
into installing Apache (www.apache.org) and running PHP as a CGI
program (www.php.net also has documentation on doing this).

Install a web server with PHP on some machine, and put the sample code
there to try it out. If you've installed everything (search this
forum's archives if you run into problems while installing) and the
code isn't working, then you'll be in a position to ask a question
that we actually have some sort of hope of answering. Without owning
the book you're mentioning it's quite impossible to determine whether
the code it contains has any bugs, or whether it works, or whatever.
Hopefully the proof readers and editor don't let any nonfunctional
code get published, so I'd wager that the code actually does work.

$50 for a book is really a drop in the bucket compared to what web
development actually costs, but if you feel the cost was unjustified
after trying all of this, you can always return the book and get your
money back.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

-- 
Regards,
Jake                          mailto:cohen@r...

Message #9 by "Steve Ambrose" <sambrose@a...> on Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:48:03 -0600
Keith

Simple answers to very simple questions...

1. Do the programs in the books work?
    YES, they  work and if for some reason the book was published with a
bug, WROX was very clear in the beginning of the book (Beginning PHP4) that
there is an Errata site with the address and also an email address for tech
support.

2. Were demos set up?
   As for demos, the book Begining PHP4 does not have them to my knowledge
(granted I only skimmed the introduction and went straight to chapter 1 to
begin learning PHP4)

As for this forum.. this forum, according to my understanding of the book,
is for questions and support on the book Beginning PHP4.  I am thankful for
those who do not have the book but take huge amounts of their time to
participate in this forum, answer questions, and share valuable knowledge of
PHP for individuals such as myself that are just now taking on the task of
learning PHP4.

I hope this answered your questions in a straight and forward manner.  I
have noticed that the general atmosphere in these forums  is that of a less
aggressive manner.  Questions asked in a upsetting or disturbing way are
usually ignored or are responded to with the same tone. The posts are
answered by individuals with knowledge in PHP and not Wrox.  I can recall
only one time of a Wrox rep posting on here and that was after about a week
long attack on the authors, publisher and forum itself.

If you use the forum you will not be disappointed as there are many
individuals here that have the knoweldge to truly give you the answers to
php issues you may have.

Regards,  Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "keith sherrell" <keshe@a...>
To: "beginning php" <beginning_php@p...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:18 PM
Subject: [beginning_php] RE: newbie questions


> Well thank you for your reply. I was directed here by the support staff.
> Should I under take this project I'm sure I will use the forum a great
> deal. I just had some very simple questions and I still have gotten very
> few straight answers from this forum and the staff at wrox. I understand
> this is an open forum and no one here is obligated to do anything. I
> understand that qickzip or me perhaps downloaded the file incorrectly. I
> simply wanted to know if the programs in the books all worked and if there
> were some demos set up.
>
> Can no one answer these very simple questions?

Message #10 by "keith sherrell" <keshe@a...> on Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:21:33
Thank you, thank you VERY much for a straight answer.I assumed the code 
worked when I bought the book, but also figured that it perhaps had a few 
bugs. I had hoped that the code was somewhere as it seemed pointless to 
type all that. I had hoped that a working demo with needed addons was up 
somewhere so I might better evaluate if it was a solution, or my solution.

Yes my servers are php ready and run several php programs on them. I could 
not find a solution for two of my current problems, and the book addresses 
one, at least in theory. I'm wanting to switch one current cgi program to 
a php as my site is just too busy for me to want to stay with cgi(if I 
can, meaning move to a php solution). 

Anyway thanks again. I'm sorry that some here thank I've come off as a 
jerk. I just asked a few simply questions to staff and got no answers and 
was sent here. I asked several more and your reply was the first to answer 
them that was much of a help. I run several forums and belong to a great 
deal. I try to always be civil, in real life and on the net, as many 
people seem to take the protection of the net as a chance to vent on 
others. That was not what I was trying to do at all.

As I just got an email with another reply, will try to address that as 
well. I was trying to make no negative comments about the authors. I was 
very pleased, even excited to find the book the other day. I was less than 
please when I could not get straight answers from support. It really 
doesn't matter if there aren't working demos of the program up, but that 
was my only question. I do think there should be, but thats another matter.

Guys bottom line, I just wanted to know if there were demos and bugs found 
after the book was released. The book was very new and so I assumed there 
were some bugs found after release. As there are screen shots in the book, 
thought there would be a few working demos. Sorry if my logic was flawed 
there. I am very truly sorry if I upset any one here, and I promise that 
was not my intent. Just wanted to get a couple of questions answered and 
nobody seemed to be willing to do that. I was not trying to be rude or 
aggresive, I was trying to find the answer to my questions where I was 
told to.

I hope all here understand.

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