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-   BOOK: ASP.NET Website Programming Problem-Design-Solution (http://p2p.wrox.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Very Difficult to Follow - Anyone Agree? (http://p2p.wrox.com/showthread.php?t=2469)

projectedNexus August 5th, 2003 01:49 PM

Very Difficult to Follow - Anyone Agree?
This book is a dissapointment. While it succeeds in providing <i>some</i> theory behind the approach it takes in building a robust ASP.NET website, I really wanted a book that provided best practices in a comprehensive manner.

I've only been writing ASP.NET for about 6 months now, so I am far from an expert, but I feel that while I have not mastered it, I should be able to follow the code and techniques in this book more closely. While I do not doubt the soundness of how the authors are tackling each project, I must say that most of it went way over my head and this is rarely true of other Wrox Professional edition titles.

The pace of the book is very fast and many assumptions are left wide open, resulting in the feeling of being lost or behind. Some of the ambiguity becomes clarified dozens of pages later, but I found myself going back and forth to make sure that I got it.

I think that maybe if you are a seasoned C/C++ programmer, a lot of this may come a bit easier for you, but most ASP/ASP.NET programmers are quite new to advanced OO theory.

Am I alone here or does anyone agree?

pondo August 5th, 2003 01:58 PM

I've got to agree with you. While it has some good examples, I would have liked to have had much more explanation.

jbergman August 5th, 2003 02:02 PM

As we are trying to move the series forward that we acquired from Wrox Press, I'm interested to know more on how you feel about this book. The series (Problem, Design, Solutions) is not meant to be tutorial in nature but rather identify design issues and show how these are solved. What specifically did you wish more of? and is the approach of this series worthwhile to you?

It may just be the book and not the approach, but I'm interested in your opinions as we work to move Wrox forward. Feel free to post here or email me separately at jbergman@wiley.com

Jennifer Bergman
Marketing Manager
Wiley Publishing/Wrox Press

projectedNexus August 5th, 2003 03:22 PM

Thanks for your post, jbergman. I appreciate your interest.

I think that the Problem, Design, Solution concept is an excellent approach. My main complaint is that while I learned a great deal about advanced concepts such as using XSL transformations and creating base classes for the presentation, business and data tiers, I had to supplement this book with other reference material to even come close to understanding the underlying concepts of the technology that was being presented.

Even the Professional series takes the fact that a technology presented may be new to the reader and attemtps to provide a quick primer. While I understand that the Beginning series is designed to hold you by the hand, the Professional series makes few assumptions (granted, these Professional books are usually twice the length of this particular book, but for $59.99, I'd expect a more thorough explanation of these cutting edge concepts, many of which I guarantee have a limited implementation base).

There is no doubt that the authors are quite competent, but this book just seems out of place. It is definetely not a Beginning book, and it is not a Professional book either. It seems to be more of a journal for very advanced OO programmers, much as a medical journal might be for a neural surgeon. And don't get me wrong, maybe this is the exact target audience for the series and I am just out of my element, however I must say that I have been much more succesful studying the IBuySpy Portal SDK-- going it all alone.

What I do hope is that Wiley will elevate the editorial standards for the books to what Wrox once had as you publish under the Wrox brand. This book, like many other Wrox books of late has that "thrown together at the last minute" feel. Copy and paste some code here and there, add some description to it, cite references to various classes in the Framework and you've got a chapter.

jbergman August 5th, 2003 03:37 PM

Thanks for the thorough response. I've forwarded your message to our editorial services group who are in the process of working on our series guidelines and book templates based on materials that we recovered from Wrox Press and also what we have been able to formulate ourselves from the books. We have heard several comments on the quality (or lack of) of recent Wrox books. I think that this may have been a problem due to the impending problems - Wrox's bankruptcy, etc. - which is unfortunate.

Thanks again,

rodmcleay August 5th, 2003 08:09 PM

I had the same isssues as projectNexus regarding this book and ended up purchasing a wrox book which I beleive is not on the list of books purchased by Wiley.
"Beginning C# Web Applications with Visual Studio .NET"
This book is designed for c# programmers moving to ASP.NET but as a Classic ASP developer who uses Homesite for Classic asp developement I have found it a good balance between foundation instuction and advanced topics.
(I am only up to chapter four as of now)

I have searched high and low for a book that is a "beginners guide to best practices".
They are either "hello world" or "do it like in C++ / Java but..."

I know have a combination of 3 books to fill my simple needs.
Beginning C# Web Applications with Visual Studio .NET mentioned above for ASP.NET methods theory.
Prof C# for syntax
ASP.NET WP Problem - Design - Solution for best practises code examples.

I really like wrox books but feel that my area of developement is so common place that there should have been a book to suit me needs better.

Still gratefull you took on Wrox books, looking forward to your new editions.


They say, best men are moulded out of faults,
And, for the most, become much more the better
For being a little bad.

MJG August 6th, 2003 05:44 PM

I used the book on publication and found it a very useful way to get started quickly.

I found the approach suited me better than most books I've bought.

It does require a grounding in the skills and techniques needed to do the job.
  • If you have those skills it may be exactly what you need.
  • If you're not ready I suggest you delay tackling it.

I treated it as a way to inform my own design which is different from that described in the book.

In my view a great book (provided you fit the target audience).

(Good to see this forum working again.)

jfs1967 August 6th, 2003 09:46 PM

It is difficult to follow. Perhaps because the authors have so much experience with "real world" coding, some things seem self-evident although they do a good job walking you through the material.

Personally, I have worked through it twice and things make more and more sense. I do not think their level of programming sophistication will be self-evident to me any day soon!

Kudos to the authors for so much attention to the class libraries (in particular Identity and Principal and the Data Access Layer 'Core'). Those modules and their related chapters have turned me in a new direction.

SBurton August 14th, 2003 05:25 PM

This book is difficult to follow. Finding the errata section on this website helped tremendously. I did learn a great deal about the multi-tier approach and have moved my app over to using MS's Application blocks to replace some of the classes used in ThePhile like exceptions, data access etc. The User accounts classes are good enough to use.

I liked the challenge this book gave me in having to think differently about designing a scalable app. The errors did throw me off badly and some of the sections could have used much more of a detailed explanation.

martintrjchv August 21st, 2003 12:23 PM

Hi... I simply like the book.

It's quite good for me, and after spending six months learning the basements of .NET, seems like a natural step.

It's not a book for beginners, you must have a foundation and some real experience to get the best results.

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