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-   BOOK: ASP.NET 2.0 Website Programming Problem Design Solution ISBN: 978-0-7645-8464-0 (http://p2p.wrox.com/forumdisplay.php?f=264)
-   -   BeerHouse ASP.NET 3.5? (http://p2p.wrox.com/showthread.php?t=69999)

dub.survivor August 11th, 2008 06:30 PM

BeerHouse ASP.NET 3.5?
 
I see that Amazon are listing "ASP.NET 3.5 Website Programming: Problem - Design - Solution" as a pre-order purchase and publish date of September 29, 2008. There is no mention of this in the upcoming listing of titles on Wrox website. Is anyone (Jim?) able to confirm that this is a likely publish date?


jimtest August 11th, 2008 06:57 PM

I wish Amazon's date were correct but it's actually more like the end of January 2009. I don't know why Amazon has that date, our data feed to them is not showing September.
We're actually work on 2 new versions of the book. The one Amazon has listed now, "ASP.NET 3.5" is going to focus mostly on shifting to ASP.NET 3.5 and use the Entity Framework for the DAL.
We're also working on ASP.NET MVC Website Programming Problem Design Solution which as the title implies, will focus mainly on reworking TheBeerHouse with MVC. That one's not listed on Amazon yet and is probably due around February or March.

Lee Dumond August 11th, 2008 07:34 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by jimtest
 I wish Amazon's date were correct but it's actually more like the end of January 2009. I don't know why Amazon has that date, our data feed to them is not showing September.
We're actually work on 2 new versions of the book. The one Amazon has listed now, "ASP.NET 3.5" is going to focus mostly on shifting to ASP.NET 3.5 and use the Entity Framework for the DAL.
We're also working on ASP.NET MVC Website Programming Problem Design Solution which as the title implies, will focus mainly on reworking TheBeerHouse with MVC. That one's not listed on Amazon yet and is probably due around February or March.
::: PHEW :::

I am happy to hear that, because from reading the description on Amazon, I was starting to get pretty disappointed. :( It's important to remember that as of right NOW, ASP.NET 3.5 really only represents a marginal step from ASP.NET 2.0. Things like MVC and the ADO.NET Entity Framework are where the REAL action is going to be in ASP.NET 3.5 after the imminent release of VS 2008 SP1. It would have been a huge mistake not to include them.

And again, from the description, it still kinda sounds like it's going to do mostly all the same stuff that the current edition does. I don't know how accurate this is. Maybe it's not too late to "influence" the direction of these two titles somewhat... ;) If not, I'd like to throw my two cents in, and encourage others to do likewise:

-- Polls? Mailing lists? Not sure how relevant those things really are anymore. Nobody really does polls any more. And it's way too cheap and convenient (not to mention much safer) to farm out mailing list management to a 3rd party service. That's what most small and medium-sized businesses are doing now.

-- I would love to see some more currently relevant functionality, like blogging and content sharing modules (photos, video, etc). Let's face it, the web has changed a LOT since 2005. The Web 2.0 is all about social networking and user-driven content. And along the same vein, TheBeerHouse needs a mobile UI. There are now nearly 20 million people in the US surfing the web on mobile devices, and even more in Europe.

-- And speaking of UI (and this is KEY), the UI absolutely MUST be improved. Semantics, web standards, and accessibility are much more important now than they were four years ago. Layout tables are a thing of the past, and if I see another empty <p></p> tag used as a line space, I am going to scream. With things like the CSS-Friendly Control Adapters and the ListView, there's no excuse not to adhere to proper standards any longer.

-- In terms of basic functionality, I feel the two things TheBeerHouse 2.0 lacked most were optimistic concurrency and true exception handling in the BLL. I don't care how bulletproof the architecture is -- without these features, the site simply won't scale, period.

I am still hoping to see some of these issues addressed in the new edition. Now, that would be a helluva book.




jminatel August 11th, 2008 08:16 PM

I need to pay less attention to Olympic diving (our US Hoosier divers just missed their chances at medals) and more attention to what ID I'm logged in with, oops. :)

Anyway, 2 important points:
1. Never, never, never trust the Amazon description for a book this long before it's published.
2. A lot of these things on on our minds for both new versions of the book. But, the real emphasis remains teaching some really solid methodology and practice that can be extended to your other work while building a solidly functional site. The exact features of TheBeerHouse (does it do polls, does it do blogs, does it have hooks for social networking platforms) are less important than do you come away with a good appreciation of how to build a real app with EF for the DAL or how an MVC app is different than other models you've used.

Within that context, yes, the description currently on Amazon is what I'd politely call "placeholder" and more precisely call "don't step in what the editor wrote 6 months ago." The authors actually writing these 2 different versions will have much cleaner and more useful descriptions for me when the time comes. And yes, both author teams have more interesting updates to the application itself to do "interesting" new things on top of the useful new architecture.

Jim Minatel
Acquisitions Director
Wiley Technology Publishing
WROX Press
Blog: http://wroxblog.typepad.com/
Wrox online library: http://wrox.books24x7.com

Lee Dumond August 11th, 2008 08:56 PM

That is all great news, Jim. I hope you didn't take any of these suggestions as "criticisms", but in the way they were meant, as things I think the community might find truly important.

I think all of us (especially yourself, of course) have a vested interest in seeing that the next edition(s) are as truly great, original, and relevant to the current state of the web, as the last one was for its time.


dub.survivor August 12th, 2008 05:16 PM

Thanks for the replies. Disappointed that I am going to have to wait so long, but excited at the prospect of so much new content. I learned a lot from The Beer House 2.0 and relish the thought of learning MVC etc in a similar format. One of the best instructive texts around. Thanks.


vantoko August 14th, 2008 05:12 AM

Hi Jim,

thanks for this update. I'm really looking forward to these books.
although I completely understand you points regarding the content, I think Lee makes a point here. It would be nice to show some web 2.0 features in the book.
(maybe call it :ASP.NET 3.5 Website 2.0 Programming: Problem - Design - Solution :)

will you be publishing draft contents, content tables, ... online ?




jminatel August 14th, 2008 08:39 PM

In the MVC book, we're definitely adding blogging. In the entity framework focused book, we've got a later chapter about some web 2.0 feature set but I don't know if we've decided on a specific 2.0-ish application to show there.

Let me ask both author teams if they're ready for some additional input on their outlines.

Jim Minatel
Acquisitions Director
Wiley Technology Publishing
WROX Press
Blog: http://wroxblog.typepad.com/
Wrox online library: http://wrox.books24x7.com

nberardi August 15th, 2008 09:04 AM

Hi everybody,

My name is Nicholas Berardi, I am writing the the MVC book that Jim has been talking about. I just wanted to take this time to introduce myself, and give a preview of what I am trying to accomplish with the book:

First of all I have been involved with MVC since the first preview release back in January and have created the first production Web 2.0 site using PR 1 way back when. The site is called IdeaPipe, http://www.ideapipe.com. If you are familiar with Dell's IdeaStorm, we have basically taken that concept and allowed any group, project, company, etc to setup their very own version. Very soon we are going to be rolling out CNAME support so you can have it under your very own domain name. So that is what has been keeping me busy since January 1.

Now for the part I know you are all waiting for. :) The MVC version of the book will contain all the same functionality of the last book except for Web Parts which are not currently possible in MVC.
 
  • We are going to update Articles so it has a couple more bloging features, however this module isn't meant to be a replacement for a full blown product like BlogEngine.NET. So if you want an awesome blog that runs on .NET look there, they have done amazing work. And you could probably write a whole book just on their code.
  • We are going to be updating the forums to give it a more web 2.0 feel, I actually did a post on this very subject yesteray before I saw the requests. http://www.coderjournal.com/2008/08/...a-web-20-site/
  • Also the number one update that you have all been asking for is a CSS templated site that doesn't contain tables. This was our first and number one priority when moving the code over


Hope this helps,
Nick

Check out my blog at: coderjournal.com

Al_Katawazi August 15th, 2008 10:10 AM

I'll throw in my 2 cents as well, My name is Al Katawazi and I am the other author of the MVC book soon to hit a shop near you.

I've been involved with MVC since preview release 2 and I have to say it's one of the greatest things to come out of microsoft in awhile. It's a change in thinking but I think Nick and I are able to take concepts familiar to you in the previous book and twist them around so they work with the MVC Framework.

The only thing I would add to Nick's description is we are stripping out tons of DAL code and replacing it with LINQ. If you haven't gotten on board with LINQ yet you're in for a treat.

Al Katawazi
Blog: CodingSmarter.com






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