I am just disgusted right now with having to do clean-up and .net conversion projects.

In a nutshell here is the disaster. I am converting over a project from .net 1.1 to .net 2.0. Going into the project, I did not know it was a vb.net project. Honestly I have never chosen and will never chose vb.net as the project code behind language. I built the project to put up on the server just to have it working and the website is just filled with errors. I commented out the code in one function and immediately there is another problem in some other function. The error I continue to get when I comment out the code in functions is this .....
Exception Details: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

Dude why in todays day and age are people still creating variables/objects without freaking initializing them or typing them. Now I am stuck with 4 dozen .aspx.vb files to freaking clean up and another 2 dozen damn App_Code files to clean.

It makes it harder for the client to maintain their website when their website is filled with "I dont know what this object" is for variables that "when I am ready to use it" it [u]SHOULD</u> work because vb allows me to walking across the highway blind folded.

I wish I was a magician, this is just ridiculous. And what I was not surprised at, is the fact that it is taking these freaking outsourced jokers 1 year to complete a project that I know from experience(Because I have worked on 2) could have been done in 3 months. No wonder they cannot even get done with the project because their coding style is just atrocious.

Rant over :(:(:(:(

Don't blame the language for incompetent developers. I can give you a similar mess in C# if you like.....

BTW, System.NullReferenceExceptions have nothing to do with variable declaration. They do exist in C# as well.......

Imar
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Imar Spaanjaars
http://Imar.Spaanjaars.Com
Everyone is unique, except for me.
Author of ASP.NET 2.0 Instant Results and Beginning Dreamweaver MX / MX 2004
While typing this post, I was listening to: For Reasons Unknown by The Killers (Track 5 from the album: Sam's Town) What's This?

Why not? Write me a snippet of code in C# that can't be wrote in VB.NET. (I am talking on a functional level since, obviously, nothing you write in C# will compile in a VB project and vice versa)

This is a poor programming practice and not the fault of the language itself. The type of error can pop up in a C# application just as easily when coded by the same person.

I am not going to turn this into a language Flame War, there are plenty of other people that fight that battle and, at the end of the day, its a silly argument. I know both VB and C# and it is a shame that VB.NET coders are getting the same bad wrap as they did back when it was the C++ camp vs VB camp.

Also, being the pompus "I am a god in the programming world" attitude is not going to win you any friends. (You imply this when you say: And what I was not surprised at, is the fact that it is taking these freaking outsourced jokers 1 year to complete a project that I know from experience(Because I have worked on 2) could have been done in 3 months.) It is very easy to be on the outside looking in and say "Wow it took them a year to do THIS?! I could have done it in 3 months!"

But could you have? Was there a break down in communication between the PM and the programmers that caused countless revisions? Were the clients problematic with change requests? So on and so forth. Just because an app doesn't hit its deadlines doesn't mean its the programmers fault and you need to account for all the possible variables.

So yep, there is my 2 cents.

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You are right. It is about incompetent developers. I actually do not prefer vb because I am coming from the following background C -> C++ -> C# -> Java -> Haskell -> Scheme so understand I am picky about variables that are written in this manner

Dim v
' some more code that if value then set v
If v = [some object] Then

I get a error on that because v is nothing unless v was set if a condition earlier in the code was true.

It is not the language....but my real issue is with people who like to code blindly, it is harder to debug.

So again, I am not knocking the language. Actually I did not knock the language it is just in this day and age people continue do write dirty code that is hard to clean up.

Parsons I am not knocking the language. I could sit down and write "good" VB code but that would be relative to the reviewer of the code.

You stated

Also, being the pompus "I am a god in the programming world" attitude is not going to win you any friends. (You imply this when you say: And what I was not surprised at, is the fact that it is taking these freaking outsourced jokers 1 year to complete a project that I know from experience(Because I have worked on 2) could have been done in 3 months.)

I am not implying this in no way especially since I was sure to mention it was this specific project that would have most likely gotten pass one year because of the mess already in the project.

I am sure you know it takes great planning and experience to write efficient applications. I could go ahead and write 100 lines of copy and paste code versus 1 function to repeat the same behavior and that is my issue here. The other day some guy told me there was not way in .net to have a drop down menu, when this functionality already exist in the 2.0 framework. This person was supposingly working with the 2.0 framework but apparently had no knowledge of the tool they are working with.

So again, I am not knocking the language, it is the people who give the language a bad reputation that I have a problem with.

I have dealt with those clients as you mentioned who want to change their requirements every day. But hey, for every change they want they have to pay for it right.

That I agree to. That's why I always try to help others understand good coding techniques and best practices. Helps to avoid projects like yours.... ;)

So, I take it we'll see you here more often, providing tips and help to programming newbies so they can write better web sites than the one you're dealing with now?? Cool!

Imar
---------------------------------------
Imar Spaanjaars
http://Imar.Spaanjaars.Com
Everyone is unique, except for me.
Author of ASP.NET 2.0 Instant Results and Beginning Dreamweaver MX / MX 2004
While typing this post, I was listening to: Play For Today by The Cure (Track 6 from the album: Staring At The Sea - The Singles) What's This?

Everyone has their preference in language. I love C# over VB.Net also as I love C++ over VB. It is just ap reference. My preference is I find it hard to scan over VB code and see what is going on vs the "," and ";" and so forth in the C languages that let you know where end of line is and what not. I also find VB too wordy and I do agree on the untyped variables like
Dim variable

I have the same issue in JScript with "var" which can be anything while in C you have to declare the data type you are using or convert of you were being fancy but I will not say VB developers are any less that C# developers. I actually give a VB coder props if he makes code I can read because I have seen some VB code that is garbage but not because of the language. I do have advice for VB developers that C# programmers take for vantage.

Type your variables when you declare them and stick with that type throughout the program for that variable. A C# programmer can make the same mistake but I see it being easier for a VB developer since they do not have to type the variable when they declare it.

I only have one question. Hey Imars, is that some program you are running that is tracking what MP3s your listening to when posting or are you adding that by hand?

Its a WebService and he explains how he wrote it here:

http://imar.spaanjaars.com/QuickDocID.aspx?QUICKDOC=277

I am curious about this statement you made though: A C# programmer can make the same mistake but I see it being easier for a VB developer since they do not have to type the variable when they declare it.

How so? The closest I can come to realizing this is if I create a variable of Type object:

object o;
which is what a VB Programmer is really doing when they do:
Dim o

(I do agree with you completely that it should be accompanined by a Type, even if it is object, regardless)


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You will have to stop flaming VB or I will have to set you on fire (Just Kidding :))

I love VB B/C is "Wordy" as you said. I been programming since more than 10 years now, and I try to move to C# (back in 2004), but despite there is nothing new on it (just learning a new syntaxis), there is no point in blame VB because you are reading bad code make by a bad programmer (or maybe just a good one that was in a real hurry).

I can read any of the 2 language, I prefer writing in VB, and I has option explicit and strict turned on, so I have to program like if I was in C# (but is not case sensitive, thanks god!).

That was a point I never understand. Why sometimes C# or C++ programmers call variables like do similar things like:
pointertonowhere
Pointertonowhere
pointertonoWhere

and don't use 3 diferents names for it.. in that case VB programmers can flame C(anything) programmers, look for a real name for that variables please!

HTH

Gonzalo

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^^Took that from dparsons signature and he Took that from planoie's profile
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That is funny.

I don't think Quick was flamming VB or anything just stating his opinion on why he doesn't like it.

However, the best .NET flame I have seen to date was a C++ programmer friend of mine had a shirt made that said: My compiler compiled your compiler.


Anyway, moving on. ^^

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