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BOOK: ASP.NET 2.0 Website Programming Problem Design Solution ISBN: 978-0-7645-8464-0
This is the forum to discuss the Wrox book ASP.NET 2.0 Website Programming: Problem - Design - Solution by Marco Bellinaso; ISBN: 9780764584640
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old December 28th, 2009, 01:04 PM
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Default ASP 1.1 to 2.0 Migration Using WAP not WSP

Hello,

Mark, if you're there, I want first to say a heart-felt "thank you" for your original 1.1 book. It has been monumental in my understanding of ASP.Net web-site programming architecture. In fact, I wrote a rather complex site based on its principles.

Now, almost 8 years later, I took the plunge and migrated the application from VS 2003 to VS 2008 using the migration wizard. Instead of getting the newfangled Web Site Project (WSP) that your ASP.Net 2.0 book describes (with its App_Code folder and no project folders structure), I migrated to a "Web Application Project" (WAP), which uses the same project layout used by VS 2003.

Herein lies the BIG DISCONNECT: I feel I need to re-write everything in order to enjoy the architecture discussed in your 2.0 book. But surely I am not alone in not having the luxury (or the time) to convert my WAP to a WSP.

Do you (or does anyone else) have any information that helps discuss the issues one will encounter when migrating your old 1.1 application to a WAP under ASP.Net 2.0? For example, I immediate encounter ASP.Net 2.0 run-time errors related to your SitePrincipal object because the membership subsystem has apparently changed quite a bit.

It would be really terrific to have some sort of a guide that help programmers in my situation--a guide that would say things like "To get the SitePrincipal object working in a WAP under 2.0 you have to change these lines to these lines", or something like that.

If anyone has any helpful suggestions kindly take a moment and write. This is a pressing matter in my life at the moment and I will actively participate in this thread. If no one has any comments, I may author my own help guide if I can find the time and if I end up successfully completing my migration effort.

Thank you,
Jon
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Old December 28th, 2009, 03:25 PM
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Jon,

If you haven't already, you may want to take a look at the following on MSDN:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...76(VS.80).aspx

It is a walkthrough for converting an existing WSP to a WAP, and may provide some insights.

My understanding though is that you are trying to convert an existing 1.1 app to a 2.0 WAP.

The thing to understand here is that the transition from 1.1 to 2.0 is pretty vast. Versions after 2.0 have mostly been "tack-ons" that extend the existing framework. However, going from 1.1 to 2.0, the entire framework was pretty much overhauled from the ground up. Because of that, there is a ton of stuff used in this 2.0 book that didn't even exist in 1.1. Data access in 2.0 is especially far, far different.

In my opinion, there probably is no quick-and-dirty method for upgrading a 1.1 app to 2.0 that will let you take advantage of the new stuff 2.0 offers. The best you could hope for is an app running on the 2.0 framework that leverages the legacy features from 1.1. Otherwise, you're probably looking at a major overhaul.

Sorry. Probably not what you wanted to hear.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 04:10 PM
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Default Let me clarify

Lee,

I thank you for your reply--very helpful.

However, I think perhaps I should clarify why I wrote on this particular forum and what my SPECIFIC question is/concerns are.

When I read and implemented the ideas in the 1.1 book, I was left with a working app that took advantage of then-current features of the .Net Framework. The key phrase here is "then-current features".

Now the 2.0 book comes out. Not only does it (wrong, it my case) ASSUME that you will be writing a WSP application--(it doesn't even mention WAP, as far as I can tell) it also give no consideration to those who implemented the 1.1 book and now wonder how best to migrate the 1.1 book's ideas.

Many people think I just need help on the 1.1 and 2.0 framework differences. That's not the issue.

When Mark (the author) created a membership subsystem in the 1.1 book, for instance, he used the 1.1 framework to create his classes, wrappers, functions, etc. Now I am stuck with those--and they don't work in 2.0 due to the overhauls. Wouldn't it have been nifty if Mark (or anyone else, for that matter) wrote some sort of helpful guide that goes like this (perhaps in a sidebar):

"If you implemented my ideas from the 1.1 book for membership, here are the key things you should change when working with the 2.0 framework." He could even have suggested wrappers that would keep the interface to his 1.1 BLL the same while actually "talking to" a 2.0 subsystem. These ideas aren't radical. Anyone who implemented the ideas in the 1.1 book surely would love to know what Mark would do to migrate those modules--and to do so not only for the WSP-style ASP.Net apps but also for the WAP-style apps.

Once again, WAPs are overlooked entirely by this edition of the book.

Thank you,
Jon
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Old December 28th, 2009, 05:25 PM
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In all fairness to Marco, the book is really intended to showcase the building on a pure ASP.NET 2.0 site from File > New Project. It is not really intended as a guide on migrating 1.1 apps to 2.0.

This is why I suspect he decided to start with a whole new application, rather than a rework of the Phile (or whatever the original book's app was called).

On the reason a WSP was used here -- if you recall your history, you should remember that, when ASP.NET 2.0 was first released, WSPs were the only show in town.

The WSP was a new feature made possible by the ASP,NET 2.0 dynamic compilation model, and it was originally Microsoft's stated intention to have WSPs completely replace the VS 2003 WAP model altogether. So, when VS 2005 first came out, around the time the book was written, it was not even possible to create ASP.NET 2.0 WAPs. For all intents and purposes, WAPs were officially dead. That being the case, there was no way WAPs would have been mentioned in a 2.0 book that was written in 2005. I'm sure you'd agree it's not really fair to knock a book for failing to feature a technology which no longer existed.

Had the WAP model remained intact for the initial ASP.NET 2.0 release, I am certain Marco would have talked about them extensively in the book.

The WAP was reinstated with VS2005 SP1 (I believe there may have been an out-of-band patch released at some earlier point) at the demand of developers who wanted it back. However, that was well after this book was published.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 05:47 PM
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Default Agreed, but...

Lee,

You and I agree and I want to make it clear that Marco is on my Most Favorite People list :) and I truly love and respect him. As I said, I never would have made a career out of ASP.Net if it weren't for his inspiration vis a vis the first book.

As far as the second book goes, I also agree that it was a book to be read for those with a clean-slate--starting to delve into ASP.Net 2.0 in all its glory (with perhaps no experience with 1.1).

However, an addendum or supplement really would be terrific. Of course, Marco isn't OBLIGATED in the slightest to provide such an addendum, but it would be quite nice to have. Although I will, on my own, convert my 1.1-style app to 2.0 WAP using many of the ideas from the 1.1 book, I would love to have Marco's expert guidance in doing so. Surely, he is in the best position to say what should and should not be done with each module (such as the Membership module) when using ASP.Net 2.0 and WAP.

Thank you,
Jon
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Old December 28th, 2009, 06:00 PM
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Yes, it would be nice, but as far as I know Marco has pretty much moved on (he's writing iPhone apps now ;) and I don't think Wrox is up for paying him to write an addendum to the book, especially as they sunk quite a bit into getting a 3.5 version out the door last year.

Also, your assumption that "he is in the best position to say what should and should not be done with each module (such as the Membership module) when using ASP.Net 2.0 and WAP" may not be entirely accurate. For all we know, Marco may not have any experience with WAPs at all, and the WAP model presents a number of non-trivial challenges compared to WSP, especially concerning things that rely on dynamic compilation, such as the Profile object.

My suggestion is to go ahead and start the conversion on your end, and post any questions you may have and we'll see what we can do to help you out with specific issues on a case-by-case basis.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 06:11 PM
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Default Hmm

As far as I see it, the WAP model is the same model used by 1.1, so--with respect to the model, nothing too major changed between ASP.Net 1.1 and 2.0 (which makes it rather easy to migrate from 1.1 to 2.0 as long as you migrate to WAP rather than WSP). However, the framework changed quite dramatically--deprecating several 1.1 class methods, etc.

I just saw that you're working on the 4.0-version of the book. You might not like me for saying this but I believe there are enough users of 1.1 who have held out that you might want to add a special section on moving from 1.1 to 4.0--or at least address the fact that there are WAPs and WSPs (perhaps you do this). If you don't do this and it's not too late, I'd like Wrox to know that there are enough fans of this series of books that they should pay you whatever additional to add a chapter to help users who have stayed in the 1.1 environment for fear, lack of knowledge as to how to proceed, etc. You can thank me later when Wrox handsomely rewards you for adding such a chapter. :) [I'm being lighthearted here--don't take this too seriously.]

Thank you again for trying to help. If I have any specific questions or information to share, I'll be sure to stop by and post again.

Regards,
Jon
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Old December 28th, 2009, 06:24 PM
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You have a point here. The major pain point in converting the application would be implementing the framework upgrade. I've done a couple of similar conversions and pretty much my approach has been to start from square one in 2.0, implementing the functionality of the old 1.1 application within the 2.0 framework in the new application. I didn't recycle any of the 1.1 code, and I suspect it would have been tougher on me if I had.

The new book is based on a WAP. The book does address the WSP vs. WAP issue and lays out the reasons one might opt for one over the other.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 06:42 PM
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Default Wrapping Up

OK, well, I will begin to remove most of the 1.1 book's Membership (Profile) code and replace it with the new 2.0 classes. Because I have existing profiles in my database I will not replace the DAL code at all--only the BLL code. I also do not plan to change anything in the SQL Server schema or in the stored procedures. As far as the UI goes, I have already written register and log-on user controls and won't replace those with the new ASP.Net 2.0 controls either (mine already work and have a specific UI ergonomic to them).

I used a Base Page template everywhere and not Master Pages. This is going to be a big pain to convert. I need to take a good look to see whether my scheme works under 2.0 (it may not work exactly the same way considering the new Page lifecycle events). If it doesn't then I will embark on replacing every page in the site with a Master Page.

I have many other things to consider (1.1 Ajax controls from Telerik, for instance) that will need to be replaced with newer versions, and changes to how I was posting information from page to page using my own POST class. I am hoping to spend about a week on this--far less than I would require had I gone to WSP.

I had once considered WSP but this is a rather large application (47 projects) and I just think it is not reasonable to take the hit. I have since started some new ASP.Net 3.5 WSP sites from scratch, and I am still unsure when/why to use WSP vs. WAP (I like some aspects of one versus the other and vice versa). I'm very happy that you have address the WAP issue in your book, for it has not received enough focus on the web or anywhere else, IMHO.

Thanks again, and good luck with your upcoming book (I will be a proud owner as soon as it's available).

Regards,
-- Jon
 


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