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BOOK: Beginning ASP.NET 4 : in C# and VB
This is the forum to discuss the Wrox book Beginning ASP.NET 4: in C# and VB by Imar Spaanjaars; ISBN: 9780470502211
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Old November 24th, 2011, 04:54 PM
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Default Midlife crisis

I finished the book last week and went into Amazon UK to post a review. Perusing some of the other reviews, especially the one dated 6th July 2010 by 'KnottedHandkerchief', I felt increasingly uncomfortable. What this, and one or two other reviews were saying, was..... Why are you bothering with ASP.NET? Don't you know how difficult and expensive it is to set up an ASP.NET site, compares with a LINUX based site? Don't you know WordPress can do everything ASP.NET can do, far more quickly and cheaply?

None of this had occurred to me. When I decided to learn website creation ASP.NET was an automatic choice because I had always programmed in Visual Basic and VBA. I went away and did some googling on web hosting. I was struck how much more expensive ASP.NET hosting is compared with LINUX. And when databases are taken into account the difference is dramatic. The few companies that offer ASP.NET hosting at a reasonable cost include one database at most. With some, even this one database increases the cost by a factor of up to four. And what use is one database? You will use that up just adding registration to your site.

If and when I get involved in website creation it will either be in the voluntary / charitable sector or my own strictly non-commercial ventures, which I imagine will need at least two databases. Hence the crisis. If ASP.NET really belongs to the world of big money and commerce, I am wondering if I should cut my losses now and start learning Java.... or something. I feel like the proverbial camel between two piles of straw.
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Old November 24th, 2011, 09:33 PM
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Default Interesting Post

I hear your concerns, but my vantage point is a bit different and I feel I need to reply.

For over the past 10 or so, I've been coding ColdFusion because the institution I work for used it. Now that same institution is demanding ASP.NET and (this is worse) all ColdFusion aps converted to ASP.NET. We are talking a HUGE amount of work. One of the reason ASP.NET is so expensive is that it's used internally (Intranet) by major institutions (behind the firewall) not just externally on the Internet. Adobe ColdFusion is also expensive for the same reason...institutions use it, driving up the cost.

I'm fortunate in that I don't have to deal with any infrastructure, server and software costs. I'm lucky in that all software and even books are provided.

From what I can tell, ASP.NET is far more complex than ColdFusion when it comes to getting the basic web interactivity job done, like connecting to a database (CRUD). This may not be fair, because I have nothing other to compare it with, but I speak only from experience with ColdFusion.

My view is different than yours in that I've been given the keys to a cool new jet and I've been told to learn how to fly it over a reasonable amount of time. Why they switched jets I'm not entirely sure, but I'm sure as hell going to learn how to fly this baby!

JJ
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Old November 25th, 2011, 08:46 AM
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Hi Wirralite,

While in general ASP.NET hosting might be more extensive, there are some things you need to consider:

1. Cheap hosting does exist. According to this site: http://www.microsoft.com/web/hosting/home you can host an ASP.NET web site for a few bucks a month. I haven't checked all the options, so I am not sure what is and what is not included, but it's worth taking a look.

2.
Quote:
Don't you know how difficult and expensive it is to set up an ASP.NET site, compares with a LINUX based site?
This is simply not true, and all depends on your own experience with either platform. You can set up an ASP.NET web site in minutes....

3.
Quote:
Don't you know WordPress can do everything ASP.NET can do, far more quickly and cheaply?
This is also not true. I didn't agree with the initial review, and I think you misinterpreted what it said. The quote was:
Quote:
Yet half-way through this book, we had covered only a tiny bit that, say, Wordpress running on a cheap shared hosting account could give, using Apache/PHP/MySQL,
The half-way through the book part is important here. The other half digs into way more topics that Word Press can't do. This is an introductory book so it starts gentle, possible showing you stuff that you already know. But comparing Word Press to the entire ASP.NET Framework just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

4.
Quote:
ASP.NET was an automatic choice because I had always programmed in Visual Basic and VBA.
That's a very good reason to choose ASP.NET: reuse what you already know. IMO, hosting is not the only factor to take into account. It's tools, possibilities, knowledge, learning curve and more that you need to take into account as well.

5.
Quote:
With some, even this one database increases the cost by a factor of up to four. And what use is one database? You will use that up just adding registration to your site.
If you're not willing or able to pay for more than one database, simply merge the Membership into your own. Appendix B, page 771 and further show you how to do this.

Quote:
I am wondering if I should cut my losses now and start learning Java.... or something
You could. But I wouldn't be surprised if you ran into similar issues.

If I were you, I'd see if I could find a host that offers what I need at a reasonable price at the site I listed above....

Quote:
I finished the book last week and went into Amazon UK to post a review.
Did you post the review? Or are you now judging the book by the price you need to pay to host your sites? ;-)

Hope this sheds some light and helps to make you feel a little better....

Cheers,

Imar
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Author of Beginning ASP.NET 4.5 : in C# and VB, Beginning ASP.NET Web Pages with WebMatrix
and Beginning ASP.NET 4 : in C# and VB.
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Last edited by Imar; November 25th, 2011 at 08:49 AM..
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Old November 25th, 2011, 11:17 AM
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Default

Thankyou JJ and Imar for these helpful and informative replies.

Imar, you are right about about KnottedHandkerchief's Amazon UK review. He does appear to be comparing Wordpress in its entirety with a small part of ASP.NET....which is less than useful. Although reading his last paragraph:
Quote:
But it's a well written, clear book, perfectly appropriate if you understand the title and what it implies. On the other hand, if your goal is "rich and interactive websites" then make sure you're not better off looking at one of the free and open-source frameworks such as Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla and so on.
-he is perhaps making the comparison more general. You are ambiguous, Mr. KnottedHandkerchief!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Imar View Post
1. Cheap hosting does exist. According to this site: http://www.microsoft.com/web/hosting/home you can host an ASP.NET web site for a few bucks a month.
.
.
.
If you're not willing or able to pay for more than one database, simply merge the Membership into your own. Appendix B, page 771 and further show you how to do this.
This makes all the difference. The fact I can merge two databases into one means I can sign up for affordable packages, only five or six UK pounds per month on that Microsoft site [moral of the story: don't ignore appendices]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Imar View Post
Did you post the review? Or are you now judging the book by the price you need to pay to host your sites? ;-)
Yes, mine is the one on Amazon UK dated 19th November. Easily spotted by the mention of Wirral in the location. In the review I didn't mention any of the concerns in this thread.


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Hope this sheds some light and helps to make you feel a little better....
Much better thanks! I am convinced I will be better off practicing ASP.NET than getting involved with other technologies.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 03:50 PM
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Default

Quote:
This makes all the difference. The fact I can merge two databases into one means I can sign up for affordable packages, only five or six UK pounds per month on that Microsoft site [moral of the story: don't ignore appendices]
Sounds good indeed....
Quote:
Yes, mine is the one on Amazon UK dated 19th November. Easily spotted by the mention of Wirral in the location. In the review I didn't mention any of the concerns in this thread.
Ah, yes, I'd seen it before. Many thanks!
Quote:
Much better thanks! I am convinced I will be better off practicing ASP.NET than getting involved with other technologies.
Sounds great. Good luck, and you where to come in case you get stuck.

Cheers,

Imar
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Author of Beginning ASP.NET 4.5 : in C# and VB, Beginning ASP.NET Web Pages with WebMatrix
and Beginning ASP.NET 4 : in C# and VB.
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