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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 04:54 AM
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Default Opera Browser bad display of web page made with Dr

I am not sure if this topic should be posted here or in the web section.
You can tell me.


I have a site constructed with dreamweaver mx 2004.
I use the visual approach, not coding.
The site looks the same in the Dreamweaver design view and also in internet explorer. There is no difference at all.
As I construct it, this way it is displayed in internet explorer.

But I need to have my site to be displayed the same in opera browsers.
Unfortunately, this do not happen.
When an opera browser look to the site, there are design problems. The layout is not the same, it is somehow bad. Elements

of the web page are displayed in other positions from these I have placed them.

What can I do to be sure that the page I make in Dreamweaver -which is visualy perfect for someone to watch it- will display

the same good way on Opera Browsers?
Am I doing something wrong? It is the same page at last. What to change in a 'perfect' designed page? And if someone change

something how he can be sure it will still be displayed right to the Internet Explorer?
Can Dreamweaver help me to that task?
What should be done?


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Old July 8th, 2004, 05:10 AM
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Hi there,

This is a very common issue. To display a site, a browser (and Dreamweaver's internal browser) has to know how to render CSS and HTML. There are a few different standards these browsers should stick to (CSS1, 2 and 3, HTML 4 and XHTML). Browser will render a page differently when you tell it to render XHTML or HTML.

To make matters worse, many browsers contain bugs that cause the page layout to change and behave differently from what you expect.

It all depends on your page design. Some things can be fixed very easily, others require "CSS hacks" to get the desired result. Is there a page you can link to so we can see what the differences are? What versions of Opera do you need to support?

Imar
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Old July 8th, 2004, 05:49 AM
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Thanks for your response.

I think is a obvious task to do web pages browser compatible. It is not a common web design task.
I need the page to be compatible with Opera 7.xx versions.

In the past I has posted my site in an old topic and this was a very bad momment for me.
Anyone hits in google my site, sees that I have posted to this forum.
I do not want people searching for my site and then get a list of forum posts! It is a dissapointment for me and I try not to do it again.

Is there any way to tell you the page without beeing 'cathced' by google engine?
Then I have to worry if someone in this topic be forgeted and spell the site normally and the google goes on...

Please tell me if there is a solution to this, I hope there is in order to see it and help be about opera problems.
Could it be a solution emailing the page to you?

Thanks in advance





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Old July 8th, 2004, 06:19 AM
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Not sure what you mean with this:
Code:
 think is a obvious task to do web pages browser compatible. It is not a common web design task.
It's not easy to make good looking pages that look the same in all major browsers. You'll need to know your HTML, CSS and your browser to get it done right (in fact, I am struggling with a site right now... ;) )

Anyway, you can post the code if you want? Can you strip all irrelevant stuff like content so only the page structure remains?

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Old July 8th, 2004, 09:39 AM
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Thanks for your efforts to help me.

Here is the code.
As you can see, some elements are missing, and other ones are away from normal positions when someone look at it with opera browser.



<%@LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" CODEPAGE="1253"%>


<%

response.expires = 0
response.expiresabsolute = Now() - 1
response.addHeader "pragma","no-cache"
response.addHeader "cache-control","private"
Response.CacheControl = "no-cache"

%>



<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">

<meta http-equiv="Expires" content="Fri, Jun 12 1981 08:20:00 GMT">
<meta HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache">
<meta HTTP-EQUIV="Cache-Control" CONTENT="no-cache">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1253">

<style>
<!--
span.articletext1
    {font-family:Arial;
    color:#333333; font-size:10pt}
span.articletext
    {}
textarea { font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt }
{ }
msthemeseparator-->


</style>
<style>
<!--
a{
    text-decoration:none;
    line-height: 1px;
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 9px;
}
//-->
</style>
<SCRIPT language="JavaScript">
da_image = new Image();
da_image.src="favicon.ico";
</SCRIPT>

<style type="text/css">
<!--
.fav-hom {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 8px;
    line-height: -5px;
}
.style4 {font-size: 12px}
-->
</style>

</head>

<body text="#000000" link="#000000" vlink="#000000" alink="#000000" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0">


<table width="795" height="973" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#111111" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" style="border-collapse: collapse">

  <tr>
    <td width="130" height="104" valign="top" bgcolor="#fcfcfc"><img src="main/nav/graphic/logo.jpg" width="130" height="120"></td>
    <td width="532" height="104" rowspan="1" bgcolor="#fcfcfc" class="text8pt"><p align="center"><img border="0" src="main/nav/graphic/lor1.jpg" width="520" height="10"><img border="0" src="main/nav/graphic/Upframe.jpg" width="520" height="50"><span style="letter-spacing: 1"></span><img border="0" src="main/nav/graphic/lor2.jpg" width="521" height="10">
            <object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
  codebase="http://active.macromedia.com/flash4/cabs/swflash.cab#version=4,0,0,0" width="520" height="16">
              <param name="quality" value="High">
              <param name="bgcolor" value="FFFFFF">
              <param name="_cx" value="17145">
              <param name="_cy" value="476">
              <param name="FlashVars" value="-1">
              <param name="Src" value="main/nav/graphic/Rotating.swf">
              <param name="WMode" value="Window">
              <param name="Play" value="-1">
              <param name="Loop" value="0">
              <param name="SAlign" value>
              <param name="Menu" value="-1">
              <param name="Base" value>
              <param name="Scale" value="ShowAll">
              <param name="DeviceFont" value="0">
              <param name="EmbedMovie" value="0">
              <param name="SWRemote" value>
              <embed src="main/nav/graphic/Rotating.swf"
    width="520" height="16" quality="high" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
    type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
    pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"> </embed>
            </object>
    </p></td>
    <td width="133" colspan="2" valign="top" bgcolor="#fcfcfc" class="text8pt"><img src="main/nav/graphic/logo-deji5.jpg" width="130" height="120">&nbsp; </td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width="130" rowspan="2" valign="top" bgcolor="#F2F2FF" class="text8pt"></td>
    <td height="741" valign="top" bordercolor="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" bgcolor="#fcfcfc" class="text8pt"><table width="100%" border="0" align="center">
        <tr>
          <td width="39%" height="180" valign="top">
            <div align="left">


            <img src=<%=Img1%>>

          </div></td>
          <td width="61%" valign="top">
            <div align="left">
              <table width=315 height="97" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=1 bgcolor=white>
                <tr>
                  <td height="4" valign="top" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p align="center" class="menutitle"><img src="main/nav/graphic/line.gif" width="310" height="1"></p></td>
                </tr>
                <tr>
                  <td height="11" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><strong>

                  <%=(Recordset2.Fields.Item("mainsubject").Value)%> </strong></td>
                </tr>
                <tr>
                  <td width="311" height="6" valign="top" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p align="center" class="menutitle"><img src="main/nav/graphic/line.gif" width="310" height="1"></p></td>
                </tr>
                <tr>
                  <td height="60" valign="top" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div align="justify"><%=(Recordset2.Fields.Item("mainar ticle").Value)%><br>
                            <br>
                  </div></td>
                </tr>
              </table>
          </div></td>
        </tr>
      </table>
        <table width="100%" height="25" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
          <%
While ((Repeat1__numRows <> 0) AND (NOT Recordset1.EOF))
%>
          <tr valign="bottom">
            <td width="18" height="25" align="right" valign="top"> <li></li></td>
            <td width="509" align="default" valign="top">.<a href="1.asp?<%= MM_keepNone & MM_joinChar(MM_keepNone) & "Id=" & Recordset1.Fields.Item("Id").Value %>"><%=(Recordset1.Fields.Item("Subjectw").Value)% ></a></td>
          </tr>
          <%
  Repeat1__index=Repeat1__index+1
  Repeat1__numRows=Repeat1__numRows-1
  Recordset1.MoveNext()
Wend
%>
          <%
Recordset1.Close()
Set Recordset1 = Nothing
%>
    </table></td>
    <td width="133" colspan="2" rowspan="2" valign="top" bgcolor="#F2F2FF" class="text8pt"><table width="129" height="25"
            border="1" align="right" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#ffffff">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td height="23" valign="top" bgcolor="#D7D9EC"><div align="center"><span class="style4">
              <%
var_date=date()
var_date=FormatDateTime(var_date,1)
Response.Write(var_date)
%>
          </span></div></td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <TABLE width="125" height="140"
            border=1 align="right" cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 borderColor=#ffffff>
        <TBODY>
          <TR>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=center><a href="/main/nav/docs/symmetoxh.asp"><img src="/main/nav/graphic/symmetoxi2.jpg" width="125" height="140" border="0"></a> </DIV></TD>
          </TR>
        </TBODY>
      </TABLE>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <TABLE width="125"
            border=1 align="right" cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 borderColor=#ffffff>
        <TBODY>
          <TR>
            <TD height=51>
              <DIV align=center><IMG height=612
                  src="main/nav/graphic/gefyra2004.jpg"
                  width=125 border=0></DIV></TD>
          </TR>
        </TBODY>
      </TABLE> <p align="right">&nbsp;</p>
      <p>&nbsp;</p> <p align="right">&nbsp;</p></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td height="65" valign="top" bordercolor="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" bgcolor="#fcfcfc" class="text8pt"><table width=523 height="55" align="center" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=1 bgcolor=white>
      <tr>
        <td width="3" height="12" valign="top" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div align="center"><strong></strong></div></td>
        <td width="519" valign="top" bgcolor="#C1C5E1"><div align="center"><strong>a </strong></div></td>
      </tr>
      <tr>
        <td height="38" colspan="2" valign="top" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p align="left" class="cat" style=" margin-left:3px; margin-bottom: -20"><img src="main/nav/graphic/Downframe.jpg" width="520" height="40" align="middle"></p></td>
      </tr>
    </table></td>
  </tr>
  <tr bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <td height="29" colspan="4" valign="top" class="text8pt">
      <div align="right">
        <table width="795" border="0" align="right" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
          <tbody>
            <tr>
              <td align="middle" width="119" bgcolor="#eeeeee">&nbsp;</td>
              <td align="middle" width="107" bgcolor="#eeeeee">&nbsp;</td>
              <td align="middle" width="108" bgcolor="#eeeeee">&nbsp;</td>
              <td align="middle" width="114" bgcolor="#eeeeee">&nbsp;</td>
              <td align="middle" width="144" bgcolor="#eeeeee"><!IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=80 SRC="/global/advs/80x20/" BORDER=0></td>
              <td align="middle" width="209" bgcolor="#eeeeee"><!IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=80 SRC="/global/advs/80x20/" BORDER=0></td>
            </tr>
            <tr bgcolor="#333366">
              <td height="10" colspan="6">
                <p align="center"
            style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Copyright © 2002-2003-2004 </p></td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
    </div></td>
  </tr>
</table>
<script>

function hidestatus(){
window.status=''
return true
}

if (document.layers)
document.captureEvents(Event.MOUSEOVER | Event.MOUSEOUT)

document.onmouseover=hidestatus
document.onmouseout=hidestatus
</script>



</body>
</html>




Thanks in advance

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 10:07 AM
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I think you missed this:
Quote:
quote:Can you strip all irrelevant stuff like content so only the page structure remains?
I can impossibly run this page in a browser because it's an ASP page with ASP source, and not the HTML source.
Since I don't have your database and the recordset code, this page won't run.

Open this page in a browser, and get the HTML source. Then remove all unnecessary stuff like content (text, applets, images, whatever) that don't influence the page design. Otherwise this is way too much code to even look at.

Cheers,

Imar
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Old July 8th, 2004, 10:09 AM
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One more thing. I noticed this:

<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

Is this the result of a Save As operation in Word? If so; good luck. The mess that Word creates is not something you can easily make cross browser.....

Imar
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While typing this post, I was listening to: We've Got A Bigger Problem Now by Dead Kennedys (Track 20 from the album: Plastic Surgery Disasters + In God We Trust) What's This?
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Old July 8th, 2004, 03:14 PM
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My code has nothing to do with word.
As I told, all work is done with dreamweaver mx 2004. For the need of this post i just made a save as from opera browser. In the original page there is no declaring about office.


Here is the code cleaned from me, pure html, and only the elements we need to see. About 4kb.

<head>


<style>
<!--
span.articletext1
    {font-family:Arial;
    color:#333333; font-size:10pt}
span.articletext
    {}
textarea { font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt }
{ }
msthemeseparator-->


</style>







<SCRIPT language="JavaScript">
da_image = new Image();
da_image.src="favicon.ico";
</SCRIPT>


<style type="text/css">
<!--
.fav-hom {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 8px;
    line-height: -5px;
}
.style4 {font-size: 12px}
-->
</style>


</head>

<body text="#000000" link="#000000" vlink="#000000" alink="#000000" leftmargin="0" topmargin="0">





<table width="795" height="973" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#111111" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" style="border-collapse: collapse">

  <tr>
    <td width="130" height="104" valign="top" bgcolor="#fcfcfc">&nbsp;</td>
    <td width="532" height="104" rowspan="1" bgcolor="#fcfcfc" class="text8pt">&nbsp;</td>
    <td width="133" colspan="2" valign="top" bgcolor="#fcfcfc" class="text8pt">&nbsp;</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width="130" rowspan="2" valign="top" bgcolor="#F2F2FF" class="text8pt"><table width="125" height="787" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  <tr>
    <td width="125" height="787"><table width=125 height="48" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 bgcolor=white>
        <tr>
          <td width="121" height="46" valign="top" bgcolor="#f2f2ff"><p align="center" class="cat" style=" margin-left:3px; margin-bottom:

-20">&nbsp;</p></td>
        </tr>
      </table>
      <table width=125 height="102" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 bgcolor=white>
        <tr>
          <td width="121" height="100" valign="top" bgcolor="#f2f2ff"><p align="center" class="cat" style=" margin-left:3px; margin-bottom:

-20">&nbsp;</p></td>
        </tr>
      </table>
      <p>&nbsp;</p> </td>
  </tr>
</table>
</td>
    <td height="741" valign="top" bordercolor="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" bgcolor="#fcfcfc" class="text8pt"><table width="100%" height="25"

border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">

          <tr valign="bottom">
            <td width="18" height="25" align="right" valign="top"> <li></li></td>
          </tr>

          <tr valign="bottom">
            <td width="18" height="25" align="right" valign="top"> <li></li></td>
          </tr>

    </table></td>
    <td width="133" colspan="2" rowspan="2" valign="top" bgcolor="#F2F2FF" class="text8pt"><table width="129" height="25"
            border="1" align="right" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#ffffff">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td height="23" valign="top" bgcolor="#D7D9EC"><div align="center"><span class="style4">
              </span></div></td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <TABLE width="125" height="140"
            border=1 align="right" cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 borderColor=#ffffff>
        <TBODY>
          <TR>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=center> </DIV></TD>
          </TR>
        </TBODY>
      </TABLE>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <p>&nbsp;</p>
      <TABLE width="125"
            border=1 align="right" cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 borderColor=#ffffff>
        <TBODY>
          <TR>
            <TD height=51>
              <DIV align=center></DIV></TD>
          </TR>
        </TBODY>
      </TABLE> <p align="right">&nbsp;</p>
      <p>&nbsp;</p> <p align="right">&nbsp;</p></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td height="65" valign="top" bordercolor="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" bgcolor="#fcfcfc" class="text8pt">&nbsp;</td>
  </tr>
  <tr bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <td height="29" colspan="4" valign="top" class="text8pt">
      <div align="right"> </div></td>
  </tr>
</table>




</body>
</html>






You can save a page with the code above and try to see it with ie and opera.

So, there are 2 problems:

1. There is a <li></li> code. It displays a bullet. I really need it. In Internet explorer displays well, not in opera. It just not appears.


2. This table

<TABLE width="125" height="140" border=1 align="right" cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 borderColor=#ffffff>
        <TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV align=center> </DIV></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>


which displays well in Ie, has a problem with it's position in opera.

In Ie stands below the other table

<TABLE width="125" height="140" border=1 align="right" cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 borderColor=#ffffff> <TBODY>
          <TR> <TD> <DIV align=center> </DIV></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>


But in opera, the first table goes a little bit over the second table, so they are overlaped, which destroy the design layout of the page.


What do you think about it?
Thanks in advance


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Old July 9th, 2004, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
quote:What do you think about it?
Honestly? I think it's a big mess ;)

Nested tables is always something hard to debug and get cross-browser. Since I don't know your intentions with the page, it's hard for me to tell what is wrong and how to fix it, but I can indicate what is wrong in the HTML:

1. First of all, you have lots of "old skool" HTML. Don't use tags but use CSS instead. Much cleaner, and you'll end up with a page that is better to understand and debug.

2. <li>: I think Opera needs content for this element before it displays a bullet. I added some text and it appeared. You should also consider wrapping the <li> items in[list] items.

3. Part of the overlapping you see in Opera is caused by the fact you added empty <p>&nbsp;</p> tags between the table. Remove those and you'll see the tables move to another location.

4. Style attributes / properties need proper measurements. margin: -20 is not correct. That needs to be margin: -20px. I believe IE has a few issues with rendering negative margins, so maybe you get the desired result by accident.

5. HTML / XHTML: You use a lot of HTML stuff, like bgcolor etc. You also use a lot of unquoted attributes. Convert your page to XHTML and use the Code Checker in Dreamweaver (if you're using MX) or use the on-line validator at www.w3.org.

6. Add a proper doctype to your document. This tells the browser what kind of HTML / XHTML to expect, so it can better anticipate when it comes to rendering your page.

I know this isn't really the answer you asked for, and it doesn't fix the problems in Opera, but this is just a bit too much for me to fix in my free time. I suggest you clean up the page, so it uses more appropriate markup and CSS. This will influence the way the page behaves in multiple (standards compliant) browser and will make it much easier for you (and people on this forum) to pinpoint any problems.

Look at http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/default.asp and http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp to learn more about XHTML and CSS.

Cheers,

Imar
---------------------------------------
Imar Spaanjaars
Everyone is unique, except for me.
While typing this post, I was listening to: Frantic by Metallica (From the album: St.Anger) What's This?
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Old July 9th, 2004, 05:23 AM
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You really helped me!

I replaced the <li> with an inserted symbol! Opera display it well. No problems with disappearing elements.

I also replaced the different tables with only one with many cells. Opera is ok now! No overlapping.

These changes made by me after all you told me.

You also told other guidelines that I 'll keep in mind.

Thank you very much for your support!

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