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BOOK: ASP.NET 2.0 Website Programming Problem Design Solution ISBN: 978-0-7645-8464-0
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 12:20 PM
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Eric

Thanks for the tips.

I did look at Community Server and I put up a little site based on it. Community Server is probably the only competitor in ASP.NET to the PHP/MySQL forum software vBulletin which I see everywhere. The problem is that in today's market very few potential customers just want a forum site. Some do of course, but most want a forum as an adjunct or a module to their main site. For most sites the forum is a condiment not the main course.

Community Serever is not general enough. I like the idea of Yet Another Forum. I have downloaded it and will try to play with it probably after I play some with Flixon. YAF seems to be about half way between the TBH forum and Community Server. On my education site I run TBH forum enhanced by code from members of this forum. This enhanced forum is good enough for me for now but YAF looks like a major upgrade.

I was looking for something like Rainbow when I came across TBH. The main problem I see with Rainbow is that it seems to be full of bugs. I got many broken links on their site. This behavior did not fill me with confidence.

I recognize that TBH was not intended as a small site development platform. It is primarily an proof of concept for programming techniques and feature demonstration. For exqample it provides the user with the ability to personalize the site's graphical presentation. Since ASP.NET 2.0 supports this feature it is nice to see how it would be implemented, but I don't think I've ever had anyone state Theme personalization as a system requirement. Similarly the actual site is a small to medium sized web application suiatable for construction by a single individual but its built with a level of abstraction that is appropriate for a development team working on a major corporate site. TBH assumes that:
  • You need to consider the possibility of a back end database change. In my world sites made for SQL Server stay in SQL Server. They don't suddenly need to be migrated to Oracle.
  • You have a DBA.
  • You have advanced programmers who create class wrappers of database objects
  • You have junior coders who only address object methods created by advanced coders

When I was corporate I always worried about a sudden upper management arbitrary switch to Oracle (or DB2). I had a DBA, senior coders and junior coders. I wish I had had TBH then. But now I have only me and a lot of TBH developmental assumptions are simply too burdensome. I cut out many of them. I could do with a lighter weight framework.

Still TBH sites seem to work reliably and from what I've seen the Rainbow sites don't.

Pat

http://weboperahouse.com
http://www.boyleed.com
  #12 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 01:35 PM
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Pat,

i encourage you to look at the Flixon site generator sooner, rather than later. This is one of the main reasons that i'm able to turn out new classes and functionality fairly quickly. Without it, of course, i'd copy/paste/replace names/sections from existing code. However, to have an application that you point to your sqlserver database, give a few provider names to and then point tables to and then 'see' an entire 'site' (or more to the point, the base classes) created is nothing short of a time saving miracle.

The great thing about a templated approach to is that you can mix 'n' match the bits that you like from ANY framework and have them work as a cohesive whole (ok, you need to do a bit of work on modifying the templates to achieve this, but you get my gist). So in theory, you could familiarise yourself with DNN and TBH and 'marry' together the best of both parts via a controled templated approach. Flixon provides this very functionality (or extensibility if you will) and is only limited by the imagination (and to a lesser extent, the intellect).

I'll probably amend my flixon templates to integrate LINQ as and when the benefits are overwhelming, likewise, it'd be no big deal to amend the templates (or create a new set) to deal with telerik/ajax based presentation layer.

In a nutshell, i suppose i'm saying that i both understand and LIKE TBH's architecture but would have no issue in 'bastardising' it (via a template) to fit best of breed features for individual functional demands.

jimi

http://www.jamestollan.com
  #13 (permalink)  
Old August 14th, 2007, 10:53 AM
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Pat (or anyone else extending TBH via Flixon),

there was a small but significant error in the templates from the msi install. Once you've installed the msi, download the zip below and copy it over the exiting templates folder. This will be fixed and added to the msi in due course, but will save you a lot of pain in the interim if you just patch over with the zip:

http://www.originaltalent.com/downloads/templates.zip

jimi

http://www.jamestollan.com
  #14 (permalink)  
Old September 7th, 2007, 07:11 AM
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Just hooking in on this convo now. Hope you guys don't mind a thread resurrection.

Many months ago, I came up with the idea of writing a webpage framework based on modularly developed code. The idea was to have a generic package to sell, which would, out of the box, offer everything to get the average webshop started, with the only "real" modifications being cosmetic.

I started, but put the idea on a shelf after being sent out as a consultant to a remote client, and afterwards making long days (being a consultant and driving in the traffic hell that is Holland is not fun). Then I came accross TBH, and found that the majority of ideas I had were already in the package.

I decided to give it a go, and adapt things where I see fit. So far, I've found very little that I deemed neccessary to change for my basic framework. In fact, I'm not even sure that I'd be allowed to sell my "completed" basic framework, due to copyright Marco / Wrox holds on the code. (Actually, that's not going to be a concern. The value I intend to supply to my customers might use the framework as a basic tool, but extends well beyond just a technical implementation).

However, I've already decided that once I finish the book, I will definitely start adding rich functionality that would be useful to my eventual customers. (I'm thinking of controls, widgets, extended forum functionality, AJAX, management reporting on the database, etc etc).

Now, after having moved to Denmark, I find myself having more time, and recently something occurred which ensures me spending countless nights tapping away in order to finish up the code to get a site online in the near future. I'm already extending functionality at times, because the site I'm working on will require it. And like jim, I don't mind improving things ;) So Maxxim, chalk one up at the "improving" team ;)

As for the other products, I've checked out Community server, but I don't like the looks of it, no matter the customisation. I would just as rather spend time improving a basis, and from that experience also grow as a programmer than spending many hours trying to adapt a third-party package that then turns out to not be customisable to the level where I'd like it.

Edit: Just tried checking out YAF. Looks like they got rooted or something, as one ends up at some hacking group's site. I'll stay away from that, I guess ;)

http://entropia-online.blogspot.com/
  #15 (permalink)  
Old September 7th, 2007, 05:09 PM
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peter,

i fully believe that the TBH framework is without a doubt, a compelling fully fledged extensible foundation. however, without imagination and shared wisdom, it will (in my opinion) fail. it won't fail due to any technical issues, it's failure will be due to the fact that interest will wane as 'glossier' [presentation wise] 'products' will target and reach an audience that is more than willing to 'drop' transient meddlings in favour of contemporary 'promise'.

but enough of the melodrama, i think i'm trying to say that with a bit of shared fervour and a ton of imagination, i really feel the basic TBH foundation could be SOOOO enhanced. in a word, we've got a great opportunity right now to share the best 'new' bits, as well as collaborating on the 'could be' great bits.

of course, i do appreciate that as 'one' moves down the 'road', then sometimes the best bits are difficult to easily share!! this is really where most community endevours fail - i.e. willing to push at the edges, but ultimately unwilling to share the big secrets (i'm as guilty as the rest on that one - i.e. i share my 1st drafts of most new functionality, but seldom expose the extended versions that i further develop)

anyway, rambling thoughts with distant focus. hopefully you get the gist of what i'm saying - if not, in a nutshell 'we ALL need to push the edges of the TBH and share new wisdoms so that we both keep pace AND stay ahead of the game here'

ok - melodrama well and truly over (for now anyway) :)

but do have a think....

jimi

http://www.originaltalent.com
  #16 (permalink)  
Old September 7th, 2007, 06:35 PM
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if TBH was a site without possible upgrades/updates, so... doesn't fit my necessities:

I don't need an "unique child articles", "basic forum without search engine, poll's, private messages, no unlimited subforuns, no new posts showed since last visit, etc".

BUT, without theBeerHouse I would go to need many months to do a site for my needs!
TBH have a great expansible core system and uses very well asp.net 2 framework (i think)!

I spent much time upgrading (version 1) for my priority needs(until decide changing to asp.net 2)
I'm working in THB from 2 months ago.
From TBH I will only use core system, some DAL and BLL stuff.

But I have to say here that TBH is the BEST for learn and upgrade!

DotNetNuke is very big... I think it was made for an large comunity that only needs/wants to change from their front-end panel!
I like to make core changes... And it's easier change TBH.

YAF was a great reference for upgrading version 1 (thePhile).

  #17 (permalink)  
Old September 11th, 2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jimibt
 Pat (or anyone else extending TBH via Flixon),

there was a small but significant error in the templates from the msi install. Once you've installed the msi, download the zip below and copy it over the exiting templates folder. This will be fixed and added to the msi in due course, but will save you a lot of pain in the interim if you just patch over with the zip:

http://www.originaltalent.com/downloads/templates.zip

jimi

http://www.jamestollan.com
Jimi,

I tried using the version of the Site Generator which I downloaded from the Flixion site. I use SQLSERVER Express, and after I select the database file, ASPNETDB.MDF, I receive the following message:

Database entry now saved.
Restart application to use this new entry.
You will not need to do this again unless you change the database name and/or detach the database.

Afterwards, the program exits. When I relaunch the app, its back to square one - the database is not selected, and when I go to select it again, the same thing happens as I described above.

Thanks,
Alex


Alex

- TheBeerHouse Mods Repository
http://www.sashka.com/TheBeerHouse/thebeerhouse.html
  #18 (permalink)  
Old September 11th, 2007, 02:52 PM
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I am using a lot of the code in The Beer House on a current contract. I seem to have signed on to integrate a big Flash application with an eCommerce back end. The woman who hired me has had three previous developers all of whom had more or less failed or gave up. I - the over confident one - accepted a deposit and am now giving it a try.

One of the former contractors did a beautiful demo but didn't employ a database. I can't use too much of his code because the employer wants a lot more features. The demo didn't scale. I'm being inspired by TBH store especially the database, the stored procedures, the shopping cart classes and the membership structure.

If I can pull this off this will be a site that no one would recognize as based on TBH.

Pat



http://weboperahouse.com
http://www.boyleed.com
  #19 (permalink)  
Old September 11th, 2007, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by ViagraFalls

Edit: Just tried checking out YAF. Looks like they got rooted or something, as one ends up at some hacking group's site. I'll stay away from that, I guess ;)

http://entropia-online.blogspot.com/
did you try yetanotherforum.com or .net? :) .net is the right address.

Alex

- TheBeerHouse Mods Repository
http://www.sashka.com/TheBeerHouse/thebeerhouse.html
  #20 (permalink)  
Old September 12th, 2007, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
quote:I seem to have signed on to integrate a big Flash application with an eCommerce back end.
Any chance of replacing the Flash with Silverlight? Either that, or you'll have to learn ActionScript, I guess. Maybe you already know it?

Eric

 


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