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BOOK: ASP.NET Website Programming Problem-Design-Solution
This is the forum to discuss the Wrox book ASP.NET Website Programming: Problem - Design - Solution, Visual Basic .NET Edition by Marco Bellinaso, Kevin Hoffman; ISBN: 9780764543869
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Old January 12th, 2006, 05:27 PM
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Default what IDE to use for this book

at 1st glances this book is using the .net 1.0 framework and Im assuming many people are using visual studio 2003 ..is it possible to use c# express 2005 edition. What enviroment is advisable to get started. As you've guessed another newbie please be patient whilst I get up to speed as it looks good fun as just want to get the right tools.

Many Thanks
Ian

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Old January 13th, 2006, 02:42 AM
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The second edition of the book will most likely work with the free Express product, but not the first edition.

However, this is not a project for beginners. You should use books targetted at beginners first.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 05:35 AM
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I wouldnt say Im a 100% total beginner I have a degree in computer science, fiddled with Java and VB in the past so currently working my way through c# the microsoft step by step book. Just saw what I needed on the inside of the front cover. But I would definatley require some help in starting up if anybody is interested or kind enough to guide me I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thanks in advance
Ian

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Old January 13th, 2006, 09:42 PM
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.NET is more than a language - it's an entire platform. Web development is also very different from other kinds of programs.

I had 20+ years of computer programming experience before I started learning .NET. I had to start at level 0 with .NET - especially when I started with ASP.NET because I had no serious web experience, aside from very simple HTML.

There's nothing wrong with starting with a beginners book, but you might be ready to learn quicker than a brand new programmer. I like Amit Kalani's blue study guide on ASP.NET (70-315) as a great way to learn from ground zero, but still cover all of the material; even some fairly advanced stuff. A lot of people don't understand the value in certification books. Think of it this way: Microsoft paid advanced people to get together and come up with an outline that covers everything a developer needs to know about ASP.NET. Then Amit came along (a man with considerable experience teaching and developing lesson plans), and he developed training material to cover every point in Microsoft's fairly detailed outline. Amit follows a pattern I like: each section is small, and followed by a step-by-step hands-on lab to demo what you just learned.

Amit's books are best for experienced programmers who are new to .NET (Wrox has some good beginners books for new programmers). Amit makes no assumptions of prior web experience.

By the way, Amit's books are for C#, but Mike Gunderloy ported those books to VB.NET, so that's a good choice for VB developers.

But, with the new release of ASP.NET 2.0, and the new certification program, Amit is now updating his books. His current books were written for 1.0 and 1.1, and the labs won't work with 2.0 "as is" because his step-by-step instructions cover a lot of IDE menu functions that have changed (the code itself is probably workable on 2.0).

I strongly advise you not to start with this book ("ASP.NET Website Programming") because you'll get frustrated, and it may turn you off to ASP.NET in general. This book is much smaller than Kalani's book and it cannot target a wide range of experience. The smaller the book, the tighter it has to focus on the readers' experience level. The same is true for the new second edition of this book - the target is intermediate ASP.NET developers who already know the basics of ASP.NET, who can already create a simple application, and who already have experience with SQL Server and IIS. I think of this book as being a plan to take people from being a page developer to being a site developer.
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Old January 14th, 2006, 08:19 AM
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thanks for your advice.... so Ill get Amit's book what tools will I need would visual c# 2003 standard suffice (are there any free downloads) and what framework and server is also required. Ideally I want to be able to build the site as described in "asp.net Website programming..." what learning path and tools would you advise. I know am asking a lot here and your time is greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks
Ian

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Old January 16th, 2006, 02:51 AM
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Ian,

Based on the tremendous progress being made on the second edition, I'd encourage you to wait a couple months and start with that. It's a more advanced design, but probably has fewer lines of code (and the DB design is simpler) since it leverages the new features in ASP.NET 2.0.

There is no free edition of VS 2003. I'm not sure if the standard edition is enough - most of us use the Pro edition. I'd only recommend that you use the first edition at this time if you have a business requirement to stay with version 1.1 (the company I work for is an example of a company that hasn't moved to 2.0 yet).

Also, I don't know for sure if the free Web Developer Express version of 2005 is able to compile the second edition's code, but I'm guessing it will work. Some of the more advanced topics in the second edition will require the Pro edition of VS 2005, but those features are not essential to making the site work.

The free Express edition of SQL Server has already been tested with the second edition's database (Marco developed the DB with this), so we know that is all you need on the database side.

There's a tremedous amount of work being done now to bring out a lot of very cool books for 2.0 (some have already been released). The more I work with 2.0, the harder it is for me to work on 1.1 projects! There's really a lot of cool things in 2.0.

I don't have a timeframe for Kalani's 2.0 books, but I know he's working on them now (his ASP.NET 2.0 book will be the first one released, likely to be followed by the Windows Forms and Communications books).

The biggest problem in starting with 1.1 is the cost of VS itself, plus the time and effort to install and configure everything (and SQL Server 2000 also). Only you can determine if you can wait a bit longer, or if you should jump in to 1.1 now. Either way, it's a big learning curve, but a fun learning curve. .NET is complex, but for us long-time developers, we constantly hear ourselves saying "that's cool" when learning .NET because we know how "bad" things were in the past. Microsoft has definitely leveraged many years, and even several generations, of experience to make .NET the best platform that developers have ever used!

Eric
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Old January 16th, 2006, 04:45 AM
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Eric,

I have purchased visual studio pro 2003 (academic version) from ebay for less than £100 and will follow your route of using Amit's book to gain a good level of understanding, before attempting anything else. and see how that goes. Many thanks for your help so far very much appreciated as Im determined to make a go of it.

Ian

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Old January 16th, 2006, 11:05 AM
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Sounds good! The Academic version is a step above the Pro version, and I know it has everthing you'll need from the IDE.

Do you also have SQL Server 2000? They had a cheap developer edition that is plenty good. Most of us are using that edition. You should be able to get it for $50 or less.

The free version of SQL Server 2000 is called MSDE. However, it doesn't come with any graphical tools, so it's not a good idea to use this unless you're already familiar with SQL Server.

Be sure to get the erratta for Kalani's book here (you'll see my name there):
http://www.techcontent.com/

And make sure you get the blue Training Guide and not the red Exam Cram. The Exam Cram book is a last minute preparation for the certification test, and this is not what you want.

Eric
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Old January 18th, 2006, 08:08 AM
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thanks for your info ..my visual studio has arrived and Amit's blue book arrived this morning got a deal again on ebay for sql server 2000.. should be here by Saturday...what would be the best approach for Amit's book is it just a case of starting at the beginning and working through to the end section by section.. again many thanks your help is so appreciated

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Old January 18th, 2006, 09:17 PM
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Yes, go through the book in order. You can skip the special info about the test and just start with the first actual lesson. You should find it easy and exciting. I kept the book with me every day for a couple months until I was done. I couldn't study it at work, but I studied it on my lunch break and every other chance I got.
 


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