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  #21 (permalink)  
Old October 7th, 2003, 04:40 PM
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"Stinky",

Your book does not mention APRESS because, at the time it was published, APRESS did not own the rights to it. WROX, at that time, was a brand of Peer- not of Wiley.

Peer went out of business.
Wiley bought parts of Wrox (including the brand).
Apress bought the rest of Wrox- and is integrating it into their line.
(this is all in the FAQ by the way)

For quite a while Wiley/Wrox provided the code downloads for the books that were purchased by APress. This was a service to the book buying public. After a time, APRESS, through the form of a lawyers letter, requested that Wiley remove all code and errata for the books that APRESS owned. Wiley, of course, complied with the request of APRESS as, at that time, they did own the copyright to all of those downloads. I, of course, can not apologize that Wiley complied with the lawful request of APRESS to remove content they didn't own from the WROX website.


People also complain, by the way, that I won't post links to the downloads on APRESS. Since I moderate a number of forums for Wiley, I understand the letter to also cover my posts. Therefore posting a link to the content in question would violate the request APRESS made to Wiley. Since I don't want to get Wiley in trouble I help people find the information themselves. I give the best advice I can with the restrictions, as I understand them, that were put into place by APRESS.

(Keep in mind, all of this information is already on the web site- but for some reason people think I should keep typing it over and over and over again.)

So when you say:
Quote:
quote:
Don’t tell me that WROX can’t have a list of book which they know they don’t have the code for… Simple! No links! Just Clean and Clear info on where to get the code for which books.
I am very sorry to tell you, that's EXACTLY the case. Wrox can't have a list of books that they no longer own or links to the downloads elsewhere. Doing so would (IMHO) violate the flavor of the lawyers letter that was sent to Wiley and would expose Wiley to a lawsuit.

As for your rude comments attacking me personally, I will take the high road. People can see for themselves who's doing the most they can to help and who's just trying to start trouble with an alias.

Hal Levy
(Employment Pending)
NOT a Wiley/Wrox Employee
  #22 (permalink)  
Old October 8th, 2003, 12:33 PM
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Hmmm... My comments though rude in nature, was only an attack on your rude undertone to the post before me...

And, I do publicly Apologize for My Rude Actions ...

Have a good day...

Stinky


  #23 (permalink)  
Old October 8th, 2003, 02:23 PM
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"Stinky",

If you had read the whole thread you would have found that every piece of information I gave you in my reply to you was already in the thread- as well as in numerous messages on the forums here. If it wasn't so plainly obvious that people are asking questions before trying to find the answer themselves I wouldn't be so hostile towards them.

If you watch, almost all of the questions asked are the same. We added sticky messages swith a clear subject and complete instructions- People STILL ask where the code is.

We can not get any more obvious and it's frustrating to answer the same questions over and over again.

Hal Levy
New Job Monday!
NOT a Wiley/Wrox Employee
  #24 (permalink)  
Old October 9th, 2003, 02:46 AM
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Hal,

Stinky is not an alias of me, nor am I an alias of Stinky, it looks like he/she is just another frustrated person who does not know that Wrox "went down", so to speak, and the site does not CLEARLY explain that certain book downloads can no longer be found on the Wrox web site, as the book says. People do not expect to have to come to a forum to find out that the code is not here anymore. I also think that your un-helpful replies to people searching for book downloads is probably a reason why so many are not getting the message first time round.

Anyway, I think I got my message across as I dont seem to be alone in this matter. The only way you will stop people coming here and asking these questions is either to stop selling the books, or get the books changed to reflect the correct download locations, neither of which I can see happening.

Hostile responses do not make for good support! Support is what these people want. Providing support IS frustrating. Support IS answering the same question over and over again.(Well, part of it is)


Almost forgot - Good luck with your new job :)
  #25 (permalink)  
Old October 9th, 2003, 08:32 AM
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Eck,

You continue to miss the point.
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wrECKster
 Stinky is not an alias of me, nor am I an alias of Stinky, it looks like he/she is just another frustrated person who does not know that Wrox "went down", so to speak, and the site does not CLEARLY explain that certain book downloads can no longer be found on the Wrox web site, as the book says.
The answer is CLEARLY posted on this message forum. It's the top sticky message. It says "Answer: Where do I get the code for a Wrox book?" as the subject. Why would ANYONE post that question before reading the message which clearly provides the answer? Perhaps one of the Wrox employees could put a link on the "Download Code" page that says "FOR ALL OTHER BOOKS CLICK HERE" and have it point to the forum message with the aforementioned answer? That might help things out.

Is the problem that the search engine offers up this thread because so much has been posted? Perhaps the thread should be removed so it doesn't dominate the search results?
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wrECKster
People do not expect to have to come to a forum to find out that the code is not here anymore. I also think that your un-helpful replies to people searching for book downloads is probably a reason why so many are not getting the message first time round.
Again, The answer is posted here. All I can do is tell people to read the answer. As I have posted as well as Wrox staff has posted, WROX/Wiley is not permitted to provide links to the downloads or the code. APress made themselves clear through a Cease and Desist letter. Do you suggest I open myself, and Wiley, up for a lawsuit by violating that?
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wrECKster
Anyway, I think I got my message across as I dont seem to be alone in this matter. The only way you will stop people coming here and asking these questions is either to stop selling the books, or get the books changed to reflect the correct download locations, neither of which I can see happening.
As has been said before, Wiley does not own the books - they can't tell people to stop selling them. Apress doesn't own the printed books, they can't tell distribution to stop selling them. Distribution want's their money- they will continue to sell them until they have no more. They don't have a publisher to "return" them to. No more books are being printed with the wrong URL's. There's nothing Wiley or Apress can do about the problem other than to direct people to the proper place.

Perhaps someone can assist in telling us how to modify the Sticky messages to "get the message across" to our visitors the information they need- without having to re-post it OVER and OVER again. When I was Copy & Pasting duplicate messages people got annoyed. When I direct people to apress people get annoyed. When I tell people to read the sticky topic the people get annoyed.

I know they just want the code- I can't provide it. I can't help them with the problem in any way other than to tell them they have to go to APress.
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wrECKster
Hostile responses do not make for good support! Support is what these people want. Providing support IS frustrating. Support IS answering the same question over and over again.(Well, part of it is)
And, in all support instances your told to read the FAQ first. In all instances when you ask a question in the FAQ they direct you to the FAQ for the answer, they don't retype it. I do the same.
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wrECKster
Almost forgot - Good luck with your new job :)
Thanks!

Hal Levy
New Job Monday!
NOT a Wiley/Wrox Employee
  #26 (permalink)  
Old October 9th, 2003, 08:57 AM
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Hal, I dont think I have missed the point, but I think you are overlooking what people are looking for when they come here.
The book says - Get the code here - people come here looking for the code/book, and its not there. You have to expect that alot of people are not savy with forums, FAQ's etc, or at least dont have time to trawl through Forums and FAQ's looking for the answer, so the last place they are going to look is in the Forums/FAQ's, IF they decide to search that far.

My comments on what could be done to solve the problem were not aimed at Wrox or APress, but merely my thoughts as to the only way the problem could be solved, knowing full well that these were not viable options.

Coming from a company who provide Internet support for various services, I dont believe telling a customer, on the phone/forum or what ever, to "go read the FAQ" is an answer they would accept or appreciate, nor telling them "Did you read what was written in the thread?". The reason they are contacting support is because they want help with a problem and not to be made to feel small or insignificant by a support persons attitude of "I know the answer, so should you". I have provided support to numerous people with differing problems, alot of the times its the same problem, and alot of the times its the same problem with the same person. Yes it can be frustrating and annoying, but thats all part of providing support.

Anyway, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with your idea.
Quote:
quote:
"FOR ALL OTHER BOOKS CLICK HERE" and have it point to the forum message with the aforementioned answer? That might help things out.

  #27 (permalink)  
Old October 14th, 2003, 10:08 AM
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Thanks for the useful suggestion on how to make the answer to this frequent and frustrating problem more apparent to everyone looking at it. I've submitted a change for the download page to implement this idea and we should have that new link up shortly.

I'd like to remind everyone here that Hal is a volunteer in these forums and gives freely of his time to try to answer everyone's questions and help them. I appreciate his willingness to answer these questions and I also appreciate everyone else here who's trying to help another reader get the most out of their books. I know this situation has left some confusion in regards to some books that are still available with the Wrox name although no longer owned by Wrox and I hope everyone can take a couple of deep breaths and be patient with each other. We'll continue trying to help every single Wrox customer we can find the answers they're looking for, even if the answer isn't on Wrox.com.

Thanks!

Jim Minatel
Senior Acquisitions Editor
Wiley Technology Publishing
WROX Press
  #28 (permalink)  
Old October 14th, 2003, 12:39 PM
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Jim,

Glad to hear that you like the idea :)

Anyway, I certainly hope we can move on from this.. Since I am "full time" employed again in a development position- I am sure I am going to need to ask some questions soon enough!


Hal Levy
Web Developer, PDI Inc.

NOT a Wiley/Wrox Employee
  #29 (permalink)  
Old July 5th, 2004, 12:48 PM
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Hi!

Thank you for supporting my dear readers of "Beginning ASP.NET E-Commerce". :)

It seems I got here a bit late, but in case anyone else is looking for it, the code can be dowloaded at http://www.CristianDarie.ro/code/7507.zip Also, at http://www.CristianDarie.ro/books.html you can find details about the revised edition of the book.

Thanks again,

Cristian Darie,
Author of "Beginning ASP.NET E-Commerce" and other books you might like ;)
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Old August 31st, 2004, 10:33 AM
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Hi Everyone

I heared there will be a 2nd edition of "Beginning asp.net E-commerce". please tell me where can i find it.

shxj99

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